Episode 119
How to harness your story of change
One of the core models shared with participants of the Vision 20/20 programme is the Story of Change. Based on the Satir Change Model developed by Virginia Satir (family therapist and author), the Happy Startup School uses it to describe the transformation they wish for others.
Rather than build products and services that they hope people will buy, members advocate a more design thinking approach that's based on understanding the change that people want to see in their lives. This helps them focus on making things that matter and creating actual value in people's lives.
On this episode, Carlos and Laurence are joined by Serena Savini, HR expert and founder and host of the I'm Back! podcast. She was a member of Vision 20/20 Tribe 4, and she shares her mission to help people come back to work from life changing injuries and experiences. And how this story is helping others.
If you're navigating a pivotal moment in you professional life or embarking on a project that is totally out of your comfort zone, then this is for you.
Links
Transcript
One of the things is talking about this idea of a journey of change, of story, of
Speaker:change, I would say that we're calling, uh, that Laurence and I have been like
Speaker:playing with in terms of the work we're trying to do generally, but in particular
Speaker:our Vision 2020 program of which, uh, Serena was a part of in, uh, tribe four.
Speaker:And linking that as well to her own story and her own journey, uh, her,
Speaker:um, things that she wants to create.
Speaker:Uh, and what I was talking to Serena about before was, you know, for us
Speaker:it's very much around what is the story of change that we are experiencing?
Speaker:How do we make sense of it?
Speaker:How do we tell it in a way that gives us clarity, but then how do
Speaker:we see the gold and the value in it that we can offer to others?
Speaker:And that for me is one of the themes I think we'll try, I hope
Speaker:to explore, but I'm happy to go in all sorts of directions.
Speaker:But before, uh, we've already gone deep, before we go deeper, uh, Serena
Speaker:I'd like you to just share a bit about, yeah, a bit about what you do at the
Speaker:moment maybe, and then talk a little bit about the part of the, the, the, the
Speaker:journey that you've been on, uh, 'cause it, it is been a bit of a rocky one.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Uh, so my name is Serena, I'm Italian, uh, and, um, I am an HR professional
Speaker:that decided to start a podcast that is called I'm Back, to have conversation with
Speaker:people that are coming back to work after a life changing experience, positive like
Speaker:a maternity or negative like an illness.
Speaker:It's always hard, I think, to return to work and to restart,
Speaker:to work after something that is happening, uh, in your life.
Speaker:And I think it's also, uh, a question for me about what kind of environment
Speaker:we want to have in the workplace.
Speaker:Uh, and often if we think about our workplaces, the environment
Speaker:is not welcoming at all.
Speaker:Uh, it's so hard to give people space.
Speaker:It's so hard to give people time.
Speaker:Um, it's hard to give people understanding about what, what was happening.
Speaker:And of course we have the legal aspect of that, but it's a tricky one because
Speaker:the law is saying to everyone, like, I'm speaking for Italy, um, if you are
Speaker:losing someone really dear to your family, a loved one, you have only three days
Speaker:and then you need to come back to work.
Speaker:And this is so painful because how can you go back to work after
Speaker:three days when you are grieving?
Speaker:It doesn't make any sense.
Speaker:If you are going to a maternity in Italy, you have six months, but okay,
Speaker:is it six months or good for everyone?
Speaker:Uh, the answer of course is not.
Speaker:If you are a dad, you have only seven days.
Speaker:Like saying that if you are a dad, it's not so important to enjoy or to experience
Speaker:your, uh, your new role as a father.
Speaker:So there is this tension that I see between what is prescribed
Speaker:by law that is more or less accepted by the work basis with.
Speaker:A lot of discrimination, unfortunately, also linked to that, and the disconnection
Speaker:with, uh, what are our conscious or unconscious needs and, and this
Speaker:tension often from my experience, can cause only more and more pain.
Speaker:And also having, I would like to have conversation with people about how
Speaker:can we create together a welcoming environment at work for everyone.
Speaker:And the reason why this is so dear to my heart, it's uh, for two reasons.
Speaker:The first one is that I was born with a disability.
Speaker:So, I know the impact of being heal, sick, going through hospitals.
Speaker:And the impact that lies on the families and these kind of things.
Speaker:And I know that since my childhood.
Speaker:And also because, uh, seven years ago I had a bad accident at work.
Speaker:And so it was super, super hard for me, the coming back to work, because
Speaker:I was not the same person anymore.
Speaker:I was not the same professional anymore.
Speaker:And I was really lost and I was feeling alone, and I don't
Speaker:want anyone to feel the same.
Speaker:So even if it took me seven years to create the podcast, I think I'm
Speaker:creating this podcast and I'm doing this podcast, yes, for people that are
Speaker:struggling right now, but also as a part of my personal healing process.
Speaker:And also to say to the Serena I was, you are not alone.
Speaker:You are, uh, not lost.
Speaker:Uh, there is another way, there is a better way that we can explore together.
Speaker:And again, it's um, let's say a conversation that I am having with a lot
Speaker:of people, but it's also a conversation that I'm having with my previous self.
Speaker:When I had my accident, I had to um, do a lot of surgeries.
Speaker:And I was so scared to say to my manager, uh, I need to do ano another
Speaker:surgery and I need to be out for two weeks, that I started to postpone
Speaker:all my surgeries, causing a lot of pain, uh, emotional and physical pain
Speaker:because I didn't know how to ask.
Speaker:I didn't know how to share.
Speaker:I didn't know how to be open about, it's not the three days at the hospital.
Speaker:I need more.
Speaker:Uh, and this is why I'm doing this podcast and, and also why I
Speaker:decided to put the title I'm Back.
Speaker:Because for me it's a reflection about when you have the power to decide
Speaker:when you are back and you can decide when you want to say, I'm back now.
Speaker:I'm really back.
Speaker:I'm here now.
Speaker:It's not something that is related to society or this kind of things.
Speaker:I am in awe of the clarity with which, uh, you're expressing your work and the,
Speaker:the challenges you're trying to tackle.
Speaker:Today we were running an event called Ideas Cafe, and the theme was this idea
Speaker:of creating content before you're ready.
Speaker:And I floated this idea of, uh, rather than having the answers and telling
Speaker:people what to do, how can you frame what you create within a question?
Speaker:Because it's a question you wanna answer for yourself, as well as it feels
Speaker:like in your case, at least, there's a systemic question and it becomes more
Speaker:of an invitation to a conversation as opposed to a stick to hit people over
Speaker:the head with for doing wrong things and what that means in terms of an energy.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:This is really resonating with me because actually I, when I started, I really
Speaker:didn't know, uh, what I was trying to do.
Speaker:I remember really well the first call with Laurence.
Speaker:When, uh, I was thinking to join the tribe, and Laurence asked me, what
Speaker:is your product and what do you want to create and what is your idea?
Speaker:And I said to Laurence, I don't know.
Speaker:I don't know why I want to join this tribe.
Speaker:I don't know why it's resonating.
Speaker:I'm really lost.
Speaker:I, I really don't know.
Speaker:Can I join anyway?
Speaker:And Laurence said yes, and I'm really grateful for that.
Speaker:But for me, it was, uh, an important passage because to be honest, I felt
Speaker:that something was emerging, but I was really not able to tackle anything about
Speaker:it and, um, have the opportunity to have the space time and the support to really
Speaker:nourish the little seed that were, that was really down in the soils and almost
Speaker:not visible, made the difference for me.
Speaker:And also why the idea of the podcast?
Speaker:It's also a funny story because, uh, I'm really an introvert.
Speaker:I don't like to, to be really visible or, or to share my voice.
Speaker:I, I really despise that.
Speaker:Uh, and at the same time, why the podcast that is doing the opposite?
Speaker:And it's a funny story because one of, our friends of the tribe,
Speaker:Nirish, was creating a podcast.
Speaker:And so when, uh, he started to share his journey, I said, okay, I'm
Speaker:going to do a podcast too, without knowing more or less anything about
Speaker:podcasting and, and this kind of thing.
Speaker:So for me, it was really being connected with what were emerging and
Speaker:really be connected with intuitions that didn't make any sense to me, and
Speaker:seek the support because, um, without the support, without the, again, the
Speaker:welcoming and safe environment, for me it's impossible to create anything.
Speaker:And at the same time, it was a journey of change for me and transformation
Speaker:because I started from, uh, not only a question mark, but uh, a question
Speaker:mark on why I want to do this.
Speaker:And, uh, and now I'm, I'm more clear on why and what I want to do.
Speaker:I could just listen to Serena all day, I think.
Speaker:There's a reason why you are, I don't know, maybe you're naturally drawn to
Speaker:using your voice, but you just have, like Carla said, such a way with words and,
Speaker:uh, a serenity, pardon the pun about you.
Speaker:Um, and so much gravitas because of the experiences that you've been through.
Speaker:Um, and I think that's why I was drawn to you when we first had
Speaker:that conversation was, I dunno.
Speaker:Some, there's just a, sometimes there's a, a reason why someone wants to
Speaker:connect with you and there's a, a reason that you can't put your finger on.
Speaker:Maybe there's not even a question like yeah, like Carla said.
Speaker:But there's a, a feeling more than anything of there's
Speaker:something here to explore.
Speaker:Um, and I'm just glad that you followed that curiosity and trusted
Speaker:us really, because I think a lot of this is about trust you trusting
Speaker:in us, you trusting in your ideas.
Speaker:You trusting in Mark who helped you with the podcast.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Mark is amazing.
Speaker:but I think more than anything, trusting in your own innate
Speaker:wisdom to, to put this out there.
Speaker:I think a lot of people we meet, even people we spoke to this morning,
Speaker:really struggle with that inner critic.
Speaker:And so even Mark said, the fact that you just go off and.
Speaker:Put these episodes together and he does all the magic.
Speaker:You know, a lot of it's down to you and your drive and your willingness
Speaker:to, or commitment to this cause.
Speaker:So yeah, it's, um, it's what the world needs and it needs more of it.
Speaker:I'm taken by your analogy of the seed.
Speaker:And it made me think about just our work at the Happy Startup
Speaker:School in a broader sense.
Speaker:And I remember someone describing, I think Laurence, you said someone described
Speaker:at least one of our retreats as a Startup decelera tor not an accelerator.
Speaker:And I just wanted to work on that for now, because when we started
Speaker:our community, when we started in businesses, particularly in the Startup
Speaker:world, it was about accelerator.
Speaker:It's like, have an idea and just scale it as soon as you can, before
Speaker:you are really even clear whether that was the right idea for you.
Speaker:And I think, you know, Laurence had been to many Startup weekends
Speaker:and seeing just ideas die.
Speaker:A you know, the, the classic thing is, um, building something that nobody wants.
Speaker:But I think the hidden message for me was building something that you don't
Speaker:want, that no one really tackled.
Speaker:One of the things that we are really curious about at the Happy Startup School
Speaker:is this idea of product founder fit.
Speaker:What is it that's mine to build?
Speaker:Not necessarily what's the opportunity that I can exploit in the market?
Speaker:And that question is not something that you can force.
Speaker:Or the answer to that I don't think is something you can force.
Speaker:It's something that I, I think takes ,and using your analogy back to the
Speaker:analogy, there's this seed deep in the soil, you have no idea what it's gonna
Speaker:turn into, what it's gonna grow into.
Speaker:You either try and force it into becoming an oak tree or you nurture it and let it
Speaker:grow and then work with what you've got.
Speaker:And this whole thing about this is, this is a seed that's been in there for seven
Speaker:years, just needed the right environment and the right water and the right time.
Speaker:I think that's the other thing, the thing about the accelerator
Speaker:is like, has to be done yesterday.
Speaker:We need to move fast.
Speaker:As opposed to actually this is the right time.
Speaker:And one of the things that I found with, a love about your story.
Speaker:Because it's, there's something that's really intrinsic to you, that's embedded
Speaker:in, I'm Back, that has its time right now for us as a business, the Happy,
Speaker:Startup, School and I, I, I'm also gonna extrapolate to people who do help
Speaker:others, it isn't, we can't force people to change when we want them to change.
Speaker:We just have to be there talking about what we do.
Speaker:So when, then they're, when they're ready, they know where to go.
Speaker:And I feel like you being able to tell your story now when you are
Speaker:ready is now giving people a place to go when they're ready to start
Speaker:trying to tackle this question.
Speaker:For me, time is really essential.
Speaker:And I, um, love what you are saying about the startups.
Speaker:Uh, I worked in startups and we need to grow faster.
Speaker:We need to go full speed.
Speaker:We need to have everything ready tomorrow.
Speaker:I don't know if it's really sustainable, and I don't know if it's right for me.
Speaker:That it's the most important part actually.
Speaker:Because I don't want to grow fast.
Speaker:I don't want to go full speed.
Speaker:I don't want to.
Speaker:have the success, like we are imagining success.
Speaker:I want to be, to create a space that maybe it's a small space, but is
Speaker:a space for people that needs that space, when they need that space.
Speaker:I don't want to have like a podcast with, uh, 1 billion downloads.
Speaker:Um, I want to create a podcast that really is resonating with maybe only one person,
Speaker:but at the RI right time for that person.
Speaker:Because I, when we say, oh, we want the startups that can create an
Speaker:impact, what do we mean by that?
Speaker:And for me, it's really related to, we are not God.
Speaker:Meaning that we, uh, don't need to, uh, put ourself in the savior ca character
Speaker:and saying, I'm going to give you what you need and, uh, you will change your,
Speaker:transform yourself because I'm here.
Speaker:I want to have another, uh.
Speaker:Perspective on this that is saying, I, I believe in you.
Speaker:I know that you can do it.
Speaker:I know that you are already in this transformational journey.
Speaker:I know that it can be tough.
Speaker:Let me be there with you, with you, not because I'm better, not because
Speaker:I'm worth be, be with you to really do part of this journey together.
Speaker:And it doesn't mean that we need to do all the journey together,
Speaker:but let's create an occasion to meet ourself and have meaningful
Speaker:conversation, meaningful connection.
Speaker:And really, I want to say to people that I see their pain.
Speaker:I see their fragilities, but I see also their wonder and their light and that
Speaker:they're able to do it, even if it's, they're still in, in the mess right now.
Speaker:And this is more important for me.
Speaker:There is a quote from Voltaire that, uh, said, um, we need
Speaker:to cultivate our own garden.
Speaker:And for me, what I'm trying to do is the same, because I'm trying to cultivate
Speaker:my own garden that is myself and what I need and my healing process, but I
Speaker:want also to give people, um, the space to say, okay, what is your garden?
Speaker:Maybe it's a small one.
Speaker:Maybe you just have one, one plant and, but it's a starting point and let's
Speaker:cultivate together this, this garden.
Speaker:And maybe it'll take like 10 years time and maybe it'll take two days.
Speaker:Um..
Speaker:I love clarity with which you express yourself and, um, the way you're
Speaker:talking about the patience around it, because it isn't about getting
Speaker:somewhere, it's about being here.
Speaker:I like the idea of just creating this space and being with people.
Speaker:Um, you also talked about you don't need a billion people to be downloading
Speaker:your podcast, though I would argue that wouldn't be a bad thing either.
Speaker:Um, but it did remind me and I just wanted to just like, 'cause I think this
Speaker:is an interesting point of connection.
Speaker:Like you, you, you're talking about here of in a very humble way, your work.
Speaker:But I wanted to connect it to, uh, people who are doing larger things,
Speaker:but I think have the same sentiment.
Speaker:I've been listening to a podcast with Sam Harris and Leo Babauta
Speaker:so the founder of Zen Habits.
Speaker:But the thing that stood out for me is he was talking about he's
Speaker:a million subscribers, and the problem he had, he said, what
Speaker:you measure is what you focus on.
Speaker:And so he got really, he, he was finding it really difficult because
Speaker:he was focusing on the numbers.
Speaker:And what he wanted to focus on was being able to help someone, whoever that may be.
Speaker:And for someone who is that, you know, you've been going on for
Speaker:10 odd years, that's successful.
Speaker:To just reiterate that message, which you just said, like,
Speaker:I just want to help someone.
Speaker:And then where will that go?
Speaker:Where you don't know.
Speaker:But there's a real honest, and from what I hear, very clear intention around that.
Speaker:And in the patience that I think that cultivates because it's such
Speaker:a genuine need to help yourself and through that, helping others.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And at the same time, I will hand something, uh, to that because, um,
Speaker:part of my struggles were linked to the fact that the starting point for
Speaker:me was a really personal story and I feel that it's the same for a lot of
Speaker:people that are coming to the Happy Startups or the Happy Entrepreneurs.
Speaker:It's, it's something that is re resonating really deeply and they
Speaker:want to create something that is really connected to who they are.
Speaker:So the struggle for me was, and Mark knows this really well, when I have launched
Speaker:the podcast, I, I really, uh, didn't want anyone to listen to the podcast.
Speaker:That I know that it sounds crazy, especially to my episode.
Speaker:I really didn't want everyone to listen to that.
Speaker:Um, and so it was really a struggle for me to find the right balance
Speaker:between put everything out there and let's say, uh, push the podcast or
Speaker:make the PO podcast visible to people because I want to serve those people
Speaker:and I want to meet those people.
Speaker:And at the same time being so personal, I was really scared
Speaker:because it's a vulnerable position.
Speaker:It's really easy to get hurt.
Speaker:And, and also to be honest, I'm still wondering if what I'm providing is
Speaker:what other people needs, because right now I'm still answering my personal
Speaker:needs linked to my healing story.
Speaker:So it's, uh, yes, there is this notion of re-imagining what is success
Speaker:or, or what means success for you.
Speaker:And, and there is also this struggle about creating something
Speaker:that is really personal.
Speaker:It's really connected to who you are and, and being vulnerable in this also
Speaker:in their, acceptance that it could be a failure or it could be not relevant
Speaker:for the people you want to serve.
Speaker:Well it links back to what you said this morning in these sessions we had
Speaker:when people were talking about this fear of when we put, well, not even
Speaker:just put our ideas into the world.
Speaker:Lots of people there are happy writing or talking about other
Speaker:people's things, other people's ideas.
Speaker:Maybe your clients.
Speaker:You're used to wearing that mask of your brand or a company.
Speaker:But as soon as you start to open your heart and be vulnerable and share more of
Speaker:your story or your beliefs or your truths, there's a fear of either tumbleweed,
Speaker:so someone, no one responding, the world not responding and that fear of
Speaker:rejection or on the other side's attack.
Speaker:You know, someone jumping on board with negative comments who doesn't relate
Speaker:to you or your story, or just thinks it's not, not true or not worthy.
Speaker:And so this internal dialogue we will have when we start to put these ideas out there
Speaker:can just debilitate people and often we don't get going, or things sit in draft.
Speaker:And I spoke to lots of people who've put an odd, a podcast episode together
Speaker:or a blog post together and it just sits in drafts and you have this body
Speaker:of work that's just sitting there.
Speaker:Maybe it could connect with someone, but our fears get in
Speaker:the way of that being realized.
Speaker:And so, to be honest, I think you're doing it all right.
Speaker:I just think you've got so much.
Speaker:Um, every time I talk to you, I just, it's weird.
Speaker:I've got an auntie who's a nun without sounding too spiritual
Speaker:about this, but there's very few people who make me feel like you do.
Speaker:When I talk to you.
Speaker:You just seem to have this groundedness and integrity and aura about you, and
Speaker:so I think you're doing it all right.
Speaker:I just think it's about time.
Speaker:And, and my sense is anyone who's been through any sort of healing
Speaker:journey of their own will find you at the right time for them.
Speaker:And like Carlos said, maybe there is a billion people out there who will benefit
Speaker:from this work, whether it's a podcast or you holding space for them, which I think
Speaker:will be maybe the next step with this is some community or um, space that you could
Speaker:create that would just give permission to other people to talk about these topics.
Speaker:What, um, sprang to mind is the tension between, on one level, building a business
Speaker:and being on a mission, whatever that mission may be, personal or broader.
Speaker:And then there's this aspect of being honest and vulnerable and authentic
Speaker:about your own struggles and the fear that it might destabilize or
Speaker:cause uncertainty in others because they don't believe that you've got
Speaker:it together or have the answers.
Speaker:And, and, and this resonates with a conversation we had this morning around
Speaker:how authentic should I be about the way I talk about myself online because
Speaker:I might scare people away 'cause they don't believe I know what I'm doing?
Speaker:If you're selling an answer, then you need to give people confidence.
Speaker:That's what I, so if this person's mission is to make money, and to sell
Speaker:a product or a service that solves a very specific question, yes, you
Speaker:need to talk about the certainty that you know, that you can provide them.
Speaker:Gives them that feeling of ease when they're trying to work with you.
Speaker:But if you are offering a sense of connection, a feeling that you are not
Speaker:alone, uh, empathy and understanding of someone's internal world, then that's,
Speaker:that's a feeling, a different matter.
Speaker:You want to connect to the person, not necessarily the message.
Speaker:And maybe you're not ready for a solution.
Speaker:You're just ready to be heard.
Speaker:But this is all about your, your intention.
Speaker:And I hear with your intention because you called it a question, they're much
Speaker:more of a broader, systemic aspect to this, rather than, please sign up to my
Speaker:podcast so I can have more listeners.
Speaker:It's like, I believe we need to talk about this.
Speaker:I believe there are people out there who don't realize that
Speaker:people want to talk about this.
Speaker:And so if I can be at least one beacon in it, in this dark sky, one star that people
Speaker:can at least point themselves towards, then that's gonna be impactful to someone.
Speaker:And it doesn't matter if I'm not clear or I'm not, I don't give them answers.
Speaker:It's just I'm not alone.
Speaker:And I feel that.
Speaker:And I think one crucial part to that, which links to when we started
Speaker:all those years ago was it feels like you've got a really strong
Speaker:enemy here, which is driving this.
Speaker:Maybe the timing's now because of it, I don't know, but something's not right.
Speaker:You just know it's not right.
Speaker:It's not right to be treated the way you've been treated or to feel like
Speaker:you can't communicate your truth or your illness or your struggle.
Speaker:And so, you don't need validation for that.
Speaker:You know, that's not right.
Speaker:And so my sense is there's a motivation there on a one-to-one level, maybe
Speaker:connecting with one person, but also knowing that no one should feel like this.
Speaker:This isn't something that is acceptable.
Speaker:Just like we used to think.
Speaker:Business as usual isn't right.
Speaker:Like to be just focused on the money and take out the humanity is just not right.
Speaker:It's just common sense to us.
Speaker:I think, and to add onto that, um, you, you mentioned vulnerability.
Speaker:And I would say I'd link to that is fear of some level.
Speaker:And again, it's another conversation we had this morning.
Speaker:It's all connecting up.
Speaker:It's really useful.
Speaker:There's lack a fear of rejection or a fear of judgment that I could add onto this.
Speaker:And so, we could be, like Laurence was saying, we could just keep all of these
Speaker:things in draft, never do anything.
Speaker:And one of the reasons could be just this fear that if I say something, someone will
Speaker:reject me or judge me in a certain way.
Speaker:And what I wanted to offer this morning was this, this quote
Speaker:from Elizabeth Gilbert about choosing curiosity over fear.
Speaker:You can't get rid of the fear, and particularly if it's baked
Speaker:down, it's like in your belly.
Speaker:You can, as much as you can rationalize it and say, oh no, but isn't real.
Speaker:It's just that feeling, not fact, it's still there.
Speaker:Still makes.
Speaker:But the invitation is that what can overpower it?
Speaker:What can I, what can gimme enough wind in my sails to overcome
Speaker:the anchor that is the fear?
Speaker:So rather than being dragged back, there's something even
Speaker:stronger that's pushing me forward.
Speaker:And again, I go back, I.
Speaker:To the question, the curiosity.
Speaker:The curiosity, not about, not just about the idea and the question around
Speaker:it, but also the people out there, you know, you are having conversations
Speaker:'cause I assume you're also curious about their own experiences and that's
Speaker:pulling you forward more than the fear of being judged or being wrong.
Speaker:Uh, and so, you know, you're asking, you know, what could you be?
Speaker:That for me is something to reflect on, is what, what can I, what is the curiosity
Speaker:that's gonna be stronger than the fear?
Speaker:For me personally, I had a lot of fears.
Speaker:I still have a lot of fear, especially when I'm publishing, uh, really,
Speaker:let's say triggering episodes or when I'm sharing something on LinkedIn
Speaker:that is not about success and, but it's something about the pain.
Speaker:And at the same time, I was able to overcome that because this
Speaker:journey for me is not only about me.
Speaker:And the fear that I was feeling, yes, it's my personal fear of being rejected.
Speaker:And at the same time, I don't want anyone to feel rejected.
Speaker:So I, for me, it's about them.
Speaker:It's about people that are feeling maybe the same.
Speaker:And I think it's important also LinkedIn to create spaces for
Speaker:really talk about pain, fragilities, vulnerabilities, um, low performance.
Speaker:That sounds impossible to talk about it on LinkedIn.
Speaker:And I think if I'm able to create this little island, it's going to be easier for
Speaker:people to say, okay, we can also do that.
Speaker:Again, I have a lot of fears, um, and at the same time I have a lot of hopes.
Speaker:Because I really believe that we can change, uh, the work environment.
Speaker:And we can ask for things that are important and relevant for us.
Speaker:Because at the end of the day, and I'm speaking as an HR person, I know really
Speaker:well that this is going to increase performance, productivity, income,
Speaker:revenue, and these kind of things.
Speaker:So it makes me so angry that it's so difficult still to this day to have
Speaker:this kind of open conversation and to create a welcoming environment for
Speaker:really everyone when there is this buzz words about psychological safety,
Speaker:diversity, inclusion, vulnerability in the workplace and these kind of things.
Speaker:But then something happened and it's never the same.
Speaker:I have never talked with anyone till now that said my company was great in
Speaker:welcoming back, welcome me back, or I didn't experience anything like that.
Speaker:Even if maybe you are sharing with me a story that is not a big story, like a
Speaker:big goodness or an accident or maternity, but even smaller story, like how are we
Speaker:coming back to work after the pandemic?
Speaker:It's almost something that we cannot discuss.
Speaker:What is the trauma that the pandemic created in all of us?
Speaker:We cannot discuss this.
Speaker:And it makes me angry, and I think it's a great way to be angry because this
Speaker:will overcome the fear of rejection.
Speaker:Anger as a, as a motivation,
Speaker:even if I'm normally a sweet person.
Speaker:But I think this, like, when people talk about passion, people th think
Speaker:about, you know, following your passion, turning your passion into a business.
Speaker:But passion's all about, I think, often fueled by, um, an injustice or
Speaker:an anger or frustration or something.
Speaker:That's what drives us to make things happen.
Speaker:Particularly in Serena's case, but I think in a lot of people without that
Speaker:it's just, there's always something better to do or easier to do.
Speaker:But it's, it's a great source of change, I believe.
Speaker:'cause it, well, it makes us act.
Speaker:I saw something in the chat and maybe I, I think Francis said something
Speaker:about your self-awareness, Serena and real understanding of self.
Speaker:I wanted to add onto the whole aspect of passion and anger because
Speaker:I think, I agree with Laurence.
Speaker:I think passion is, is a fuel.
Speaker:It's definitely something that drives us forward, and anger can be part of that.
Speaker:But when there's a lack of an awareness around it and an inability to control
Speaker:it, and I'm linking this to this idea of authenticity and vulnerability and
Speaker:you know, what do I share on LinkedIn.
Speaker:If we kind of like, vomit our feelings in a way that isn't aware or self-aware,
Speaker:that isn't necessarily always gonna help.
Speaker:But if we can harness those feelings, I feel, in a way that we don't diminish
Speaker:them, we don't dismiss them, we don't, um, rationalize them as such, but we
Speaker:articulate them in a, in a self-aware way, then that's where I think authenticity
Speaker:can be a powerful tool when we're talking about the work that we're trying to do.
Speaker:And so yeah, I've always struggled with this idea of passion because there
Speaker:was an element of lack of control.
Speaker:Control, not in the sense of like, I need to be able to, um, have a hold on it,
Speaker:but this kind of, um, it not creating the results that I'm looking for.
Speaker:But I feel with you, there's this real drive, this real like, oh, and real
Speaker:awareness about what that means, not only for yourself, but for others.
Speaker:And so ire, I'm really, um, I feel that you are modeling what it means to be
Speaker:vulnerable and authentic and be very clear about, this is not your comfort zone.
Speaker:No.
Speaker:And so it is an all roses, like, yeah, I was vulnerable and I was
Speaker:an introvert, and now I'm much more extroverted and I can do a podcast.
Speaker:I, no, I'm still scared.
Speaker:I still find it hard.
Speaker:And I'm still doing it.
Speaker:Or I'm trying to do it.
Speaker:That's the other thing.
Speaker:It's like this is an unfolding story.
Speaker:I think it's one of the things I want, uh, really latch onto here is
Speaker:there's a lot of, a lot of messages of like, oh, I used to be this and
Speaker:now I'm this and everything's good.
Speaker:No, it continues to be challenging and it continues to be hard,
Speaker:and you are not this new hero.
Speaker:You still need support.
Speaker:You still need people around you.
Speaker:And I don't like this notion of the hero.
Speaker:I'm just myself and I can show up as I am.
Speaker:And, yes, it's a journey.
Speaker:Uh, I am in a learning curve.
Speaker:But, um, for example, um, I received the feedback on one of my podcasts
Speaker:saying, oh, I really loved, uh, the episode, but, uh, why you are
Speaker:talking so little during your podcast?
Speaker:You, you need to talk more about yourself because I want to know
Speaker:you and to see your perspective.
Speaker:You are, uh, giving a a lot of space to the other people.
Speaker:That, of course, this was the intention, the starting point for
Speaker:me to put the Guest at the center.
Speaker:But at the same time, it was, uh, a really useful comment and feedback for me because
Speaker:I really noticed after that, that yes, I'm tending to speak as little as possible.
Speaker:I don't want to interrupt, I don't want to share, um, personal things.
Speaker:And I think that if I'm not able to find the right balance, I'm losing
Speaker:something in the conversation and people may lose something in the conversation.
Speaker:Because the way I think I show up is also the way I want people to
Speaker:experience the podcast, but if I'm not talking how they, how can they know?
Speaker:And so it's always challenging for me, and it's always, when I need to
Speaker:publish a LinkedIn post, I'm always in doubts and I'm always, uh, say
Speaker:to myself, oh, why Serena do you need to write these things again?
Speaker:Can you write something about life is amazing, you are the best person
Speaker:in the world, and this kind of thing, instead of saying life is, uh, could
Speaker:be a struggle and these kind of thing.
Speaker:Uh, so every time I need to publish something, uh, I have always the internal
Speaker:struggle of saying it makes sense.
Speaker:It doesn't make sense.
Speaker:Uh, and at the same time, I am trying to, to continue doing that again, not only
Speaker:for myself and for my healing process, but also for others, and for other
Speaker:people that maybe they will need that.
Speaker:Mm-Hmm.
Speaker:I'm curious about, you know, you just, you're talking about the feedback and
Speaker:them wanting to hear more about you, and I'm sure you've had, helpful and,
Speaker:and positive feedback from others.
Speaker:How has that felt for you and what is it done, if anything for you when
Speaker:thinking about the podcast and doing another episode and continuing?
Speaker:The most shocking things for me was and is the fact that I don't need to find
Speaker:guests because a lot of people, a lot of people are approaching me saying,
Speaker:please, I want to come and share my story.
Speaker:So, for example, I have already all the episodes ready for the next
Speaker:six months, and I'm publishing an episode every two weeks, and I have
Speaker:already a long list of guests that are saying to me, oh, I want to, to come.
Speaker:So it's also, it was really shocking and it, it's also, um,
Speaker:uh, something that, uh, it's.
Speaker:Um, like the opposite of the normal, um, way of thinking.
Speaker:I think, podcasting or these kind of things.
Speaker:Meaning that maybe I'm not so much pushing on having more listeners, but
Speaker:I'm already attracting a lot of people that feel that it's a safe space and
Speaker:that it's an occasion for them to share.
Speaker:And this is really beautiful, unexpected, and also fulfilling
Speaker:because, yes, it's like I, I achieved what I wanted to achieve in a sense.
Speaker:And it's funny that I'm receiving a lot of messages from my Guest saying, oh,
Speaker:when are you going to publish my story?
Speaker:And I need to say, in six months you'll have your episodes published.
Speaker:And it's, it's funny, and at the same time, it's um, it's really beautiful
Speaker:and it's really moving for me.
Speaker:And if I connect the word moving to continue to move and continue to create
Speaker:and do things, yes, um, I'm able to do it because I have already episodes recorded.
Speaker:I'm able to do it because I continue to receive messages from people saying
Speaker:I want to, to come and share my story.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:It's hard for me to stop when people are saying, no, I want to come
Speaker:and, and, and do this with you.
Speaker:We're coming close to it, to an end.
Speaker:And, and I feel, and I don't wanna make this too contrived, but I do want
Speaker:us to play on this story of change.
Speaker:And if you can cast your mind back to before the podcast, and what you
Speaker:perceived podcasting to be like, and what you thought was going to get in
Speaker:your way, to what, where you are now and what actually will got in your
Speaker:way, and how you overcame those things.
Speaker:Uh, I'm not enough.
Speaker:Uh, I don't know anything about podcasting.
Speaker:Uh, I, I don't speak English really well, and my podcast is in English.
Speaker:Um, I don't like my voice.
Speaker:I don't like to put me on the stage.
Speaker:Uh, and a lot of other things.
Speaker:The list is, is long.
Speaker:And for me, I tackle all those things one by one.
Speaker:Like, I'm not good enough, but I don't need to be good enough to do
Speaker:that, uh, because it's not about me.
Speaker:Uh, I'm not a native speaker, uh, in English, but I want to collect
Speaker:stories from English speakers.
Speaker:Um, I don't know anything about podcasting.
Speaker:I can ask to the wizard Mark so I can have the support that I need.
Speaker:So I, I really try to make this long, long list of things that were in
Speaker:between and really transform and change those, um, to overcome everything.
Speaker:And again, they're still there because I'm still feeling not good enough.
Speaker:Uh, I'm not sure about my English and these kind of things.
Speaker:It's not that they will disappear magically.
Speaker:Um, I'm still learning about podcasting, but it's just, they
Speaker:are with me, not against me, and it's a beautiful thing personally.
Speaker:Add that to the t-shirt list.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:Oh, Serena, thank you.
Speaker:Time has flown by amazingly.
Speaker:It's just really wonderful to just hear, everything that you're saying, despite
Speaker:it not being your native language.
Speaker:Thank you so much.
Speaker:Oh, uh, thank you.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:I, I really mean it.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:Um.
Speaker:Grazie mille.
Speaker:Grazie mille.
Speaker:Oh my god.
Speaker:I go back to something Kees Klomp said at Summer Camp years ago about
Speaker:how purpose comes from pain, and without pain, there is no purpose.
Speaker:And I think your story is just a great example of that.
Speaker:You've had some painful experiences in your life, but it's what you do with those
Speaker:and it feels like this is something that was gonna happen and maybe it's taken
Speaker:seven years to happen, but I'm just so excited about where this may go for you
Speaker:and so many people that you can help.
Speaker:So yeah, I think the thing I like about this is, like Carlos
Speaker:said, it's an unfolding story.
Speaker:It's not one that's been told.
Speaker:And so.
Speaker:I feel connected to it, and anyone who hears your story feels connected to it.
Speaker:And that's the magic here.
Speaker:So, yeah, I'm just grateful that you've, the way you just laugh, laugh
Speaker:through the fear, and move forward and have hopes and dreams and don't let
Speaker:those get drowned out by the fears.
Speaker:Super inspiring, so yeah.
Speaker:Thank you so much.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:I'm really super grateful to have met both of you in the Happy Startup School.
Speaker:I think it was crucial for me to be part of the tribe because it was not only the
Speaker:support, but also the journey and the time that you gave to everyone, really
Speaker:unfold the idea and explore the idea.
Speaker:So I'm really grateful to both of you and to Thesal School, and I'm really grateful
Speaker:to my tribe and to Mark, and to Lana.
Speaker:I'm grateful to you for this story.
Speaker:I think it's so useful to hear about what is ultimately for
Speaker:me, a very creative endeavor.
Speaker:I think in the world of business, whenever we're investing in something
Speaker:or deciding to do something, there's this immediate, what's the ROI?
Speaker:You know, what's, what is it that I'm gonna get back from this?
Speaker:And I'm hearing this from your particular journey.
Speaker:Energy, clarity, courage, connection.
Speaker:You know, we teach a course on pricing.
Speaker:I have no idea how to put a number on that.
Speaker:What, what is the number that you put on that?
Speaker:And what is the number that people would put on hearing your voice
Speaker:and hearing your story and wanting to share the space with you?
Speaker:'cause they need to share their story.
Speaker:And so I think for me is a message to anyone listening to this is like, you
Speaker:can't necessarily put a price tag on everything in life and sometimes you
Speaker:just need to start something, do it, and, and just feel the energy, which
Speaker:are something I'm trying to learn.
Speaker:And your story is inspirational for me, so thank you.
Speaker:Thank you very much for sharing that.
Speaker:And maybe we can rethink her line and different say way like
Speaker:regeneration, optimism, and integrity.
Speaker:Boom.
Speaker:You're a natural Serena.
