Lovely messy startups

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Beth, For people who aren't familiar with lovely mass, humans aren't

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familiar with you, give us an idea of.

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What you are doing at the moment and maybe a little potted history of

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how you got to this point right now.

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Sure.

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Okay.

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So maybe we start with the history because that then makes

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sense into what I'm doing now.

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So I, the first thing I ever did with you guys was actually about six years

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ago, and I don't know if you'll even remember, but I did not see myself

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as a startup at that point at all.

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Mm-hmm.

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I was a freelance copywriter, single mom, working at home,

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not really doing anything local.

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My clients are pretty global sustainability.

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so I used to watch what you're doing and think, oh, it sounds so amazing, but I

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didn't really see that it was for me.

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And sometimes I would sneak into things.

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And then I think the first thing I did there after that was

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happy pricing and I increased my copywriting rates at that point.

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So that was very useful.

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But then that gave me a taste really, and I. Started to get

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a sense that I can do this.

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There's something for me, and I do not want to be a freelance

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copywriter for the rest of my life.

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I don't think that's what I'm here for.

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So I signed up to Vision 2020 at that point, without putting

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myself under any pressure at all to come up with anything, then I,

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I was almost stubborn about that.

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I was saying, I'm not going to come up with anything.

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It will happen when it happens.

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So, went through the entire program, it was amazing, learnt loads, absorbed

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it all, and then just waited really and listened, listened to life

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and what was going on out there.

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I think what Vision 2020 did give me was laid some self-belief in,

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I am now ready to use my voice.

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I, I had not written anything in my own voice at that

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point, and I know that that's.

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That's the same for quite a few people that do Vision 2020.

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I think that's a big fear thing.

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And when we do the, um, content challenge on LinkedIn, that

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was transformative for me.

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That was the first time I'd ever written in my voice rather than the voice of a

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huge company or a CEO or someone else.

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So it gave me the belief that I'm ready to do something and

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then I just waited and listened.

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And I think it was at, summer camp 2022 that I really felt what it

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was that I have to contribute.

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Um, I can't say I was happy about it really at the time.

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I've got teenagers now.

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I'm hearing a lot about what's going on out there in

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the world with young people.

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Huge amounts of anxiety and worry, and this rise in self-harm that.

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The, the data is so outta date, but the data says at least 10% of

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young people now have self-harmed.

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And I'm hearing more about this from other parents in schools.

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And I actually self-harmed myself when I was a teenager and I had

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not told anyone about this, but I had done quite a lot of work on

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myself and had quite clear opinions.

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And I was actually really annoyed that it's got to this point

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now where nothing seems to have changed in the way that that's

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being talked about and dealt with.

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And that's what, at least 25 years.

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So I knew that I had things to say on that.

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Um, and when I realized that, that was quite terrifying, to be honest,

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I definitely had more than a little cry at summer camp about that.

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' cause it just, it felt like a responsibility and something

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that I knew I had to do.

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And then began the journey.

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So even the name, lovely, messy humans, and it's grown.

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I'm not just working with young people in self-harm now, but the

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name came from my conversations with young people because they were saying

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the way they are spoken to about their mental health and especially

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those who are self-harming was making them feel worse, not better.

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So I tested all sorts of things and I was having conversations and

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they hated some of the names I came up with, but that one they loved.

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So I've really created the business that I'm now developing

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through listening to other people.

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So it's now become, I train schools and youth organizations and give talks

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to parents and talk to young people all about emotional regulation, the nervous

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system, human biology, because I.

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The reasons that we are struggling are so grounded in that.

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And then I talk about self-harm and this and what really is happening

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and take as much of the fear and confusion away for people that I can.

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So it's early days.

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Feedback's great.

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Every time I work with an organizational person, it evolves a bit more.

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The thing that struck me, that stood out.

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I think initially what I felt was this, this weight that you, I think I heard

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you say it's like woo, and then the, then the like a real, the emotion around

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it, the anger I heard, it's like why isn't something being done about it?

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And then the, oh my God, is it up to me is what I heard.

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It was like, shit, why, yeah.

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Responsibility

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is this now is that the responsibility, the idea of even talking about this

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topic on LinkedIn to an audience that knows me for working in corporate

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sustainability as well, how to do that without being over emotional and you

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know, I have my way of communicating.

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It's quite calm.

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So navigating all of that.

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I remember listening to a podcast, I can't remember who it was by,

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but he talked about if you have something that could help a lot of

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people, who does it make you, if you.

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Keep that to yourself because you're too scared to do it.

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And I was like, O

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Yeah,

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it was really, that's where as well, I had to do like loads of

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groundwork to even be able to do it.

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I was terrified of public speaking and that's where being part

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of this community is amazing because yes, I think it's work

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we have to do on the inside, but other people can help us do it.

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So I've done public speaking training with Matt Madison, who's part of

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the community and voice stuff with Kieran and all sorts of people.

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So the help that we have here that can just help us put the groundwork

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in before we are even ready.

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I can now stand in front of a group of a hundred teachers and

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I don't feel nervous and that just blows my mind a little bit.

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It's a very different person to, I was, when I first knew

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that I was gonna do this work,

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I heard the term this morning vulnerability hangover than if

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you've come across that, the idea of.

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And it was Graham, you shared it after his big, sort of launched a new book and

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a big publicity sort of, uh, campaign.

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But this idea of the more you share your story, the more you just

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have a bit of a crash afterwards.

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I dunno if you found that initially when you start to

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be more vulnerable in public.

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You know what, I had some surprising things.

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I had the CEO of a quite large food company message me and

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say he was finding what I was doing, really inspiring.

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So I thought those people would be going, what's Beth doing?

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But you, you don't know how it's landing for people and how they're receiving it.

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So that was interesting.

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But yeah, the first time I ever talked about it and did a public

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talk, I marketed it almost at a whisper because I didn't really

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want anyone to come and I think I had five people and it was perfect.

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Those tiny, tiny steps that each time.

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Oh, I did that and I'm fine.

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Now I can do a bit more.

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And so I started very, very small.

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yeah, I saw that post by Graham about vulnerability, hangover.

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And the way it landed for me is this element of, and, and I know Graham has

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a kind of a self-confessed introvert.

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Certain levels that kind of, or ambivert, you could even say.

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'cause he's happy to be on stage.

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But also that kind of one-to-one reaction, reaction interaction can be a

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bit much, he hates social media though.

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He's like all over the place now.

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but there's the, what I want to tie into here, this idea of kind of

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self-awareness because I feel this is part of your work around system.

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Uh, nervous system regulation, being aware of our bodies and how

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we're interacting with the world.

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Sensing into that.

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And I like to go deeper into that because there is something around

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the choices we make, the directions we go, the projects we take on,

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and the boundaries we put in place.

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Because part of, you know, with this whole weight of like, woo, this is

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mine to do and this is a big thing, and there's, it could go and some

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people can suddenly go, how do I scale?

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How do I scale the impact aspect of it?

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There's a also, I was wondering if you could speak to this awareness

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of your own limits, the awareness of where you could overstretch yourself,

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Yeah, so I mean, there's awareness of your own limits, just in terms of.

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How ready am I even to stand up in front of people and be that

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exposed, I suppose you could say.

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So taking that gently, but then also awareness of my own limits in

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terms of, I don't have a psychology degree and I'm not a therapist.

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So that was then for me to find who am I, and be very, very honest about that.

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But I also found some very open-minded and amazing professionals and sat down

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with them and said, can I show you this?

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And they almost validated and agreed of everything I was saying

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and said, it's really important.

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We need people to be sharing lived experience.

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But I made sure to do it very responsibly.

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And I, I also do it differently for different people as well.

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So it's also around understanding what they're going through.

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It's quite a triggering topic, so you can't just offload it without.

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I thinking about that.

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uh, so the, what the, the scenario I'm thinking and that's coming

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over my head is like, there are so many people that need this help.

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There is so much I could do to actually get this word out and champion this

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mission, um, to support people, whether they are the young people self-harming,

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or people who really struggle with just their nervous system and dealing

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with the anxieties in the world.

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I'm just spitballing here.

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But also then you are a mom.

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You got two kids.

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You are on your own.

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You still have to pay them mortgage.

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We have to rent you can't just throw everything out the window

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and suddenly go down this route.

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How are you, you know, what, what's your, what's been your

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experience of managing that?

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My experience is I have had to go slow by necessity, so I'm still copywriting

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let as soon as, and I see this with so many people, as soon as we are

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worried about money, we're talking about the nervous system already.

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Financial safety is a core human need in order us for us to feel safe and secure.

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So if that feels threatened, we are not gonna be working at our best.

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So I've gone very, very slowly because of that, for a start,

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and that then has two sides.

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On the one hand, it's a bit frustrating because I could

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be doing so, so, so much more.

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I know that on the new work, on the other hand, by going that slow, I've

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had to listen and I've had time to change what I'm doing every single

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time I learn something from someone.

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So I am super confident that what I'm sharing is very good.

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It's just, at some point I'm gonna have to take that leap and

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it's coming closer and closer.

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So yeah, it's a journey and it's around just tuning in all the time.

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Where am I at?

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But I, I'm almost grateful that I couldn't just leap in and

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come up with the big business plan and just start doing it.

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'cause I know it's gonna be so much better.

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The word patience came to mind and that's something that

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a lot of us struggle with.

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Who, well, it sounds like you've got a comfortable relationship with it.

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in terms of not, you said it from the start, really, even just with the idea.

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You weren't trying to rush an idea out, vision 2020.

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You weren't trying to force this out, but trusting that the right idea will

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show up and this will evolve into something with the right tendering.

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Yeah.

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I suppose, I think pretty deeply about everything I'm doing.

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And so it's been an opportunity to do that, to really test it,

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to really get myself ready and to just keep getting that feedback.

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but now it has, it is at a point now where it could help so many

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more people than it is helping.

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So I'm thinking about that.

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I'm thinking, do I now create an ebook and send that to every school

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I can as part of my marketing?

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So I just give half of this information away for free because it's actually

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so simple and it's not out there

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actually.

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That's, um, wondering now to this, for me, this idea of like, what's

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the, what's the simplest, or not even the simplest, what's the

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obvious next step and obvious, uh, di different levels or different aspects?

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One is like it's needed, but two, I have capacity to do it.

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Three, I have the skills to do it.

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And so I'm hearing it's needed.

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Uh, there is some capacity 'cause you're able to work with the copywriting and

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then I assume fit this in with the, the mothering as well as the making money.

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Uh, and you're a copywriter, you know how to write.

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Yes.

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And I don't particularly know how to create a business, scale

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it and turn that into money.

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And so that's where it's also around being very clear on where

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I'm not clear and working with people who are, that's where I'm at.

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I know the parts I'm good at, like this two years has transformed my view

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of myself and what I'm capable of.

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And I'm clear of where I also still need to just ask for help and support.

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Yeah.

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And I think that's the, um.

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The challenge I think sometimes people have is they, they're not

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necessarily clear and so they also don't ask for the right support.

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For instance, sometimes there's, we remember, I remember this Lawrence, when

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we were running our digital agency, you know, the first thing people would ask

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about is that, how can I get funding?

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How can I get funding?

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Where can I get funding?

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I need to get funding.

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Where can I find a co-founder?

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Or where can I find a co-founder?

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He is like that co-founder and funding.

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Those are two things that are really important.

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Heck, co-founder a lot of the time.

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'cause I need to build an app.

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as opposed to like, I think some of the more fundamental things,

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like who is it I'm helping?

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How am I helping them?

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What's really needed?

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What's really wanted?

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And then from there, knowing who is it that needs help, how they need

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help, then what is it I can create?

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And if I wanna create that thing, what support do I need to create that thing?

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And then that's really clear.

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I'm trying to do this, this is what's getting in my way.

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Who can help me with that?

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How does that, I dunno how that translates to your, where you are

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at and what you've been doing.

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Undoubtedly, the most valuable thing in terms of getting clear was

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just getting out there and doing it and seeing people's reactions.

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So I ran a two hour training the other day for the entire

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staff of a boys school.

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And I could see some of grown adults, men in particular, some having

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like rea emotional reactions to some of what I was talking about.

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I was talking about, um.

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How we've evolved and how the world is so different now from what we

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are biologically designed for and neurodiversity and things like that.

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And some of someone emailed me afterwards and said, that was one of

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the most amazing things I've heard.

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It spoke to me so deeply he had him personally.

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And when you get feedback like that, it's so invaluable.

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But I wouldn't be getting that if I hadn't taken that risk and

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started very small and listened like that at every stage.

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So that's given me the clarity to get to a certain point.

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And now it's about actually being humble and going, okay, I need help.

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I know I've got something powerful.

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How do I now get it out there?

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And other people know how, how to help me get it out there better than I do.

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I'll refer back to a book that we've talked to, talked about in the past.

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It's like 10 x is better than two x. And I'm, I always refer to this 'cause

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these, they talk about these four C's.

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Um, people usually think they need clarity and competence or confidence.

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So there's clarity and confidence in order to do the thing.

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But Benjamin Hardy, the author, talks about commitment and courage.

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Those are the two things you need when you do it.

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You'll get the clarity and then you'll get the confidence.

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'cause you start to build up this muscle of that.

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I know what I'm doing.

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So I'm hearing, well, I'm assuming commitment and courage were the first

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two things that you were acquired.

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And I just, from your perspective, where'd you find that?

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Where Yeah.

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Articulate, maybe share the sort of that, that idea of

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the commitment and courage.

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How, what, what was that for you and how did that work?

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We've already talked about the commitment thing, like almost

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the ethical responsibility of I actually have to do this.

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so that was the motivation.

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But then the courage, it really did come from being part of a community and going

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slowly and having people supporting me.

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And I even, um, I had to go and do some healing work myself on.

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Some of my fear was actually a trauma response, so I went and worked on that.

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And yeah, so it's not just about forcing ourselves, like jumping in

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something huge and scary, it's, for me, it was about going slowly at

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the pace I needed to go and each time that just built up the courage.

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So we can be gentle as well.

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And I think like, you know, compassionate with ourselves, especially

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if we are talking about something that came from our own personal

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struggles, I'd say that even more.

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I love that.

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And, and, and I want to, so I wanna acknowledge that in terms of

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the counterpoint, again, looking back at our startup days is

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like, fake it before you make it.

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You know, just get out there and just pretend you know what

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you're doing and, and just create the thing and you'll be fine.

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How anxiety inducing that can be for some people because they're just waiting

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to be found out and they're just waiting for the rug to be drawn, pulled from

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under their feet and like, oh my God, everyone's gonna think I'm an idiot.

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so that, for some people, be potentially really harmful and this will never

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go there again because it's just like a, a traumatic experience.

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And then there's what you are, I heard you talk about there is just like,

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okay, being curious about the fear.

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Where is that coming from?

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So rather than judging it, like how can I understand where it's coming from?

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So I. I'd like to hear also just more about your work now, you know, your

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understanding of how these systems work and maybe in relation to this

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story of understanding yourself.

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Okay.

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So in reply to that first part around the imposter syndrome, I guess you

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were talking about the, the way I avoided that was just to be very, very

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honest about who I am and how I've come to do this work and what I'm not.

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So there is no imposter syndrome and what I actually found was that

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people valued that more I stand out and different to the very many large

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numbers of mental health professionals who are out there and it actually

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gets me through the doorway easier.

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So, um, what my first proper.

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Big training opportunity with a school.

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Started with a cup of coffee with one of the school counselors and then a meeting

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with someone else, and then a meeting with their whole safeguarding team.

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And then they asked me to train their entire staff.

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So I just, I was super honest and it worked.

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So that's one thing.

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And then in terms of really getting under the bonnet of the fear, and

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this is in the training I deliver now as well, understanding how we are

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hardwired for survival and safety.

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All of us, it's our biology.

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that's what I'm nervous systems here for.

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It's an internal operating system.

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It's constantly looking for what, are we safe?

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Are we okay?

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Is there any threat out there?

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And it remembers everything.

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So all our early experiences, it is formed by our mental diet, what I

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call the mental diet when I'm talking about young people, social media.

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Everything we're taking in.

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So even understanding what's going on in our brain, why was it that I would have

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a full body fear reaction to standing up in front of people and talking.

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That wasn't just nervousness, it was something else.

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And it, it was my brain telling me that if I do that, I am not safe.

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I don't know if I'll survive.

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'cause it, it's a primi primitive reaction.

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So by understanding that and then looking at how we can actually heal

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that rewire the brain start to teach our nervous system that we can do it

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and it's not a threat to our survival, that I have had to learn that in order

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to have the courage to do this work.

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And that is now all in the training that I deliver.

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Because this rise that we are seeing in anxiety and self-harm among

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young people is all to do with that.

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They are basically, they found something that regulates the nervous system

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and that calms them down temporarily.

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And so I explained that from my own experience of it.

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It's, it's temporarily effective.

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It's not effective in the long term.

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It leads to all sorts of fear and shame and pain.

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So yeah, but seeing it exactly for what it is, which is an emotional

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regulation, a strategy basically to manage our emotions and get

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through stress and anxiety.

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And I think adults have so many of those strategies, don't they?

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It's young people have discovered this one.

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So I take all the confusion away and look at it from that perspective.

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What's going on in the body?

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Endorphins, they're powerful and they're very involved in self-harm.

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what I appreciate is you have this, um, understanding at a kind of a

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scientific neurochemical level.

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And what I know of you, there's also a very embodied experiential part of this

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work that you are very, benefited from you practice, you help people with.

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Are you able to just kind of, I don't know, a surface level or some kind

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of easy level, just talk about this transition of this journey from a,

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let's call it an unhelpful way to self-regulate, to a more helpful way to

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self-regulate and any steps in between.

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Is is that something you, you know, you've talked about, you think about?

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Yeah, so in the context of what I'm talking to young people about, I look

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at this cycle that is feeding into this rise in self-harm where I. There are

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things we can do at every single stage.

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This may be too complex for now, but let's have a go.

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It always begins with thoughts, beliefs, what's actually going on?

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How?

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What are we doing?

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What are we thinking that is triggering our nervous system

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to feel that we are not safe?

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That could be a thought, a belief, a behavior.

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So number one is to start becoming aware of that which is known as consciousness

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or whatever you want to call it.

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But that's the starting point.

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Then we need to look at what happens after that.

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It leads to emotional suffering, so how can we alleviate that?

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Have a conversation with someone, start to see our emotions as

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helpful as messages that are there to tell us something rather

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than things we need to push away.

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There are all sorts of things we can do at that stage.

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Then there are the tools that we can use once our nervous system is triggered

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and we all respond differently.

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So there's the people who fight, there's flight, there's freeze.

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We are taught this in biology lessons at school.

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We are not really taught it in terms of how does it affect my everyday

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life, my relationships, my business.

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But when we look at our own reactions and we start to get to know our own

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nervous system, we can then look at the tools that we can use at that moment.

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So that can be breathwork stuff, it can be shaking, all sorts of somatic things.

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I've even started to build that into some of my training.

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So getting everyone on their feet and having them all shake, that took

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a bit of courage as well because I did not know how that was gonna go.

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Um, and social media's amazing for this now as well.

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There's, you can just access all this stuff.

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I. If you know it's there, but a lot of people don't know it's there.

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They don't even know we have the power to regulate our

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emotions in all those ways.

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Then I go into more depth on the actual self-harm.

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Because what I realized when I was doing this work early stage was that

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I was still ashamed that I did that.

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No one had ever explained it to me in the way I'm now explaining

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it, which takes the shame away.

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It's not some weird, dark thing.

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It actually makes total sense when you see what's going on in the body.

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So I do that and I look at how can we help the young people now

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not have to carry that around with them for their entire life?

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'cause we need them to be, you know, stepping into who

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they really are, don't we?

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We need all of them to be having the biggest impact they can have.

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well, I think the one bit there, I think hopefully is,

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is, might be helpful for others.

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This idea of there's the message, the information, the data, and

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then there's how it's communicated.

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So I'm say there's the message and there's the messenger.

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And what I heard from you saying is like, there's information out there,

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but it isn't communicated in a way that engages the people who need it.

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And what you are able to do, or what you are on a mission to do

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is how can I reach these people in the way they need to be reached

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with this useful information?

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Yeah.

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Um, and I'm, I'm talking to anyone out there who feels that, oh.

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It's all done, it's all been said.

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It is all around, you know, what words of encouragement could you

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give to someone like that who feels like, um, it's, it's not worth doing.

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It's so easy to feel like that, especially if you're in something

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like the happy startup community with everyone's, we are all

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pretty well informed and there's self-awareness and everyone's learning.

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But what I've seen is that we are in such a bubble.

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So it's very easy to look on social media and think other

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people already doing it.

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They're not.

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I mean, when I'm going into schools, this is new for

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everyone from what I can see.

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So to me it feels like it's really well known because of the

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people I know and the people in my life, but it's not at all.

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So bridging that gap, one of my things was how can I help to reach the masses?

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Because I have had this, you know, 20 years of training almost with.

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Big corporate companies joining all these dots and

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talking about complex things.

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I can do that now in any, on any topic.

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So that's what I want to do.

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So, yeah, I think there is always many, many more people that I'm

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not aware of the things that we are talking about than people who are

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the way I'd like to tell this story now is this, uh, reweaving of threads.

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If I use this kind of, uh, an analogy of a tapestry, you get to a point

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of life where you've just woven this tapestry and all the threads

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are tied up into a certain way.

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I can write, I'm a great copywriter, I know about science, and now I work with

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corporates to do sustainability reports.

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And what I know is unweaving that thought, I'm still great at copywriting,

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I'm still understand science.

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Mm-hmm.

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And now I'm gonna reweave this to help these people because this is

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this other thread that was dangling around that I'm, I wasn't aware of.

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But now it's really important and I now wanna bring those together.

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Yeah.

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And not only the professional stuff, but the personal stuff, when I look at.

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What I'm sharing now.

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It's so cool that it brings in my zoology degree that I did years ago.

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And then the stuff I've done with corporates, the communication,

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my own journey along the way.

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I did six years of therapy.

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I then worked on a lot of somatic stuff, including with people in the community,

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breath work, boxing, all sorts.

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And I've trained in a technique called havening technique, which uses

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touch to regulate the nervous system.

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Gets us feeling so safe that we can then go and look at things that are

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in our subconscious that we wouldn't normally have access to because our

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mind would say, no, not going there.

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So I've trained in that.

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I don't, I have ideas of how I want to use that, but I'm not doing that yet.

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That will happen when it's ready and it's exciting.

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But yeah, the journey continues and what I've learned through.

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Setting up lovely, messy humans has changed my life in ways way

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broader than just business as well.

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So it's all joined up and that makes it, it just feels so me and so authentic.

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I didn't know that that was possible to do that.

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I would say a couple of years ago, not even when I did Vision 2020.

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I wanted to just bring in a couple of things that I've seen in the chat.

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Um, uh, firstly, uh, Joanna was sharing, she'd be terrified of

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going public with her hurt and how to help people with the same hurt.

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Is there anything that you, I, without knowing the full context, Joanne,

Speaker: 00:28:59

apologies if this is too simplistic for you, but just, I dunno, Beth,

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are there any words that you could share with her about that journey?

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Um, I started with one-to-one conversations.

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I, I was talking to.

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Teenagers of friends who were self-harming.

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And even that just gave me so much motivation and e just

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hearing their reactions told me I was on the right path.

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So starting that small, it doesn't have to be an event.

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It doesn't have to be a talk.

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It can literally be stuck by going for a coffee with some people

Speaker: 00:29:30

you feel very comfortable with.

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Just like putting things into words is really powerful.

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Just speaking things out loud that we've been holding in

Speaker: 00:29:39

within us is a powerful step.

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Thank you.

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Um, so another comment that came up before is, um, it

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was around, it's from Claire.

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Um, she's curious about how to manage transition, a transition

Speaker: 00:29:52

from full-time employment and be as, and being a busy single mom

Speaker: 00:29:55

to setting up her own startup.

Speaker: 00:29:58

Time is a roadblock for her.

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She just doesn't assume that.

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Yeah, just not having capacity.

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Is there any experiences that you've had that might be of help?

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I think a game changer has been my kids reaching teenager, to be honest

Speaker: 00:30:11

and becoming more independent.

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So I feel really grateful to myself that I did so much of what

Speaker: 00:30:18

I could do while they were younger, but that wasn't, I wasn't doing

Speaker: 00:30:23

everything I could have done.

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I was just, you have to manage everyone's needs, don't you?

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Including your own.

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So I almost did a lot of the foundational work while they were

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young, and then as soon as they've got to this time when I've got more

Speaker: 00:30:35

time on my hands, boom, I'm ready.

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and I've got a question from Harry who's actually doing

Speaker: 00:30:41

Vision 2020 at the moment.

Speaker: 00:30:42

uh, and he's curious about this, the experience of working on LinkedIn.

Speaker: 00:30:47

Basically the seven day content challenge will be coming up.

Speaker: 00:30:49

He wants to know a bit more about you and Do your experience of it.

Speaker: 00:30:53

I assume,

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I mean, I found my terror at doing that actually quite hilarious.

Speaker: 00:30:57

'cause I will write things in the voice of a CEO of a multinational

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corporation and they love it.

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But to write things as Beth, no chance.

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So, um, again, we've talked a bit about, I, I think like confidence.

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And self-belief is a privilege and we don't all have it.

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We don't all start with that.

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We have to learn it somehow.

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And a lot of people learn it as kids and some of us don't.

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And I didn't, and I dunno if you guys remember, but I described afterwards

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that that experience for me of doing that LinkedIn challenge was

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like having a family cheering me on in a way that I didn't necessarily

Speaker: 00:31:34

experience when I was young.

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And so it completed that growing up.

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So really make the most of it because I don't think we get

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that opportunity to, again, to be in this container of everyone

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who's going through it together.

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There's not gonna be any tumbleweed moments for any of our posts because

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we're all supporting each other.

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It was just so good for me and I think I actually wrote some, some

Speaker: 00:31:57

things that I wanted to get out for a long time, so I just went for it.

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Not every day.

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I don't know that I did every day just to like drop that one.

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Sorry.

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Every day.

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Every day.

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I think I

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did every day.

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But one,

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um, on that, I think a topic I would say of growing

Speaker: 00:32:14

something in a nurturing space.

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Um, I, I remember a lot of times in, in a previous business life where the,

Speaker: 00:32:24

the process of asking for feedback usually ended up people just giving

Speaker: 00:32:28

you loads of suggestions of how you could do things better or differently.

Speaker: 00:32:32

given your experience with lovely, messy humans, and you said that a soft, gentle

Speaker: 00:32:36

approach, what would you, you know, if you were going to help someone who is at

Speaker: 00:32:41

that stage as well, again, and you are gonna suggest to people who are wanting

Speaker: 00:32:46

to support someone at that stage.

Speaker: 00:32:48

What, what was your recommendation for the energy and the approach

Speaker: 00:32:51

of feedback or support?

Speaker: 00:32:54

Is there anything from your experience that you think,

Speaker: 00:32:56

please think about it this way?

Speaker: 00:32:58

Any suggestions?

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Yeah.

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I mean, my, my measure of success, and I'm not, I don't really go into detail

Speaker: 00:33:05

of these things, but on an intuitive level, my measure of success was never

Speaker: 00:33:10

what I said or how well I came across.

Speaker: 00:33:11

It was, oh my God, I did that.

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Mm-hmm.

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So, do you know what I mean?

Speaker: 00:33:15

Like just the step of doing something was the success.

Speaker: 00:33:20

It wasn't the detail.

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And also really, I've really learned the power of it's who we are being

Speaker: 00:33:27

that matters so much more than what we actually do and what we actually say.

Speaker: 00:33:33

People still have to remind me of this, but the more I focus on what

Speaker: 00:33:37

am I actually gonna say and prep it all, it just doesn't go as well.

Speaker: 00:33:41

It's more about am I turning up comfortable?

Speaker: 00:33:43

Am I gonna be myself?

Speaker: 00:33:44

Am I in a good energy and will I connect with the people in front of me?

Speaker: 00:33:48

That's what matters.

Speaker: 00:33:49

Not have I got all the details right?

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Are there typos in my LinkedIn post?

Speaker: 00:33:54

Whatever it is.

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Mm-hmm.

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I don't know.

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I don't even get, I, I need to get better at getting feedback after

Speaker: 00:34:00

sessions, but at the moment I don't get, I don't ask for too much.

Speaker: 00:34:05

I think there's a different stage.

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I feel I've discovered doing this work that the different

Speaker: 00:34:10

stages require different spaces.

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and there is something around.

Speaker: 00:34:15

And the image that springs to mind is like, you've got just this little

Speaker: 00:34:18

shoot of a plant in your hands.

Speaker: 00:34:20

And you're just wanting to show it to someone.

Speaker: 00:34:23

And what you don't want is someone to go, Ooh, let me have a look at that.

Speaker: 00:34:26

Oh, it could be this big, it could be that big.

Speaker: 00:34:27

What?

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And it suddenly it's like a, this is like really precious, and now you're,

Speaker: 00:34:31

you're be, you are manhandling it.

Speaker: 00:34:34

And I use that word I think specifically around this like very masculine energy

Speaker: 00:34:38

around, let's push it to the limit.

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Mm-hmm.

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because I remember in the early days there was, you were thinking about

Speaker: 00:34:45

going to leaders because around the work that you were doing, there's

Speaker: 00:34:48

something you, you identified that the way we lead isn't necessarily

Speaker: 00:34:53

helpful, particularly around sustainable thing, sustainability area.

Speaker: 00:34:57

And so.

Speaker: 00:34:58

Given there's this tendency, I believe, for us to push hard.

Speaker: 00:35:02

Do you have any thoughts and ideas of how to push soft or

Speaker: 00:35:06

push at all or what it means to lead in, in your perspective?

Speaker: 00:35:09

Do you have any thoughts around that?

Speaker: 00:35:11

I think range is important.

Speaker: 00:35:12

Sometimes we need to push hard and sometimes we need to go really

Speaker: 00:35:16

soft and I think we all, whoever we are, need that full range and

Speaker: 00:35:20

to use those at the right moments.

Speaker: 00:35:23

So with the havening technique that I've trained in, I think eventually

Speaker: 00:35:27

I will be using that in business because so often the decisions we

Speaker: 00:35:33

are making and the actions we are taking in business are not necessarily

Speaker: 00:35:36

coming from a healthy place.

Speaker: 00:35:37

They're coming from a trauma response or a belief that we've had that I

Speaker: 00:35:41

have to be, I have to succeed in order just to be valid or whatever it is.

Speaker: 00:35:46

So helping people to get.

Speaker: 00:35:48

Underneath that, and then look at how they would be in business without that.

Speaker: 00:35:53

I mean, when you think about the role of our nervous system and emotional

Speaker: 00:35:57

regulation in business, it's huge.

Speaker: 00:36:00

That is such an untapped area.

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But again, I do think there's, it's about working on range.

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Yeah.

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I need, there needs to be the business pushy strategy stuff, and there needs

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to be the very receptive, listening, tuned in, I don't know all the

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answers, and I'm growing all the time.

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And when you combine those two, that's like, wow, powerful.

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But one on one on its own and the other on its own less.

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So

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there's like a right time, right energy, uh, and that.

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For me speaks to, again, back to your work, is an awareness

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of what is required right now.

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and that isn't just a cognitive awareness.

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It's like a, a, an energetic embodied physical awareness, which I would

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pretty admit I didn't really believe in for a while, for a long time.

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This is like, no, it's, it's about strateg.

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It's about how it, how it, how you can understand it from a very

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cognitive strategic planning way.

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Does it make sense?

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As opposed to does it feel right?

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Yeah.

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Does it feel right?

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Trusting, like when it feels right.

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Just trusting that what you are doing, every little step you're taking is going

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to end up going in the right direction.

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That's been huge for me.

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I do not have a view of the destination, but as long as I fully.

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Believe that each step I'm taking is the right one.

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Great.

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And I'm doing so many experiments along the way, even like what to wear.

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Like who am I when I turn up?

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I did one thing and I dressed like a teacher and then I did another thing and

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I turned up pretty much in my gym kit.

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And this, the gym kit was way better.

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Definitely people liked me more.

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what happens or from you, what's your perspective?

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What's your opinion?

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When it, it sounds right, it's, you know, the plan's, right?

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But it feels wrong.

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Get clear on why, what feels wrong, because sometimes it feels wrong and

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you are right, your intuition is right.

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And sometimes that feeling wrong could be a fear response to something

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that it doesn't belong to now.

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So.

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I think that's really important to separate those two out.

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So there's a skill of really being able to discern between what's

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a, let's call it simplistically a trauma response or an inner knowing.

Speaker: 00:38:12

Yes.

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And so if you say that's, it was the inner knowing, saying no, but

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you still went forward with the plan, what is, from your opinion,

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the potential downside of that?

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I just think the energy will drop out.

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So I've, I collaborate with people and it's been great.

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And I'm also know that I want to do, I need to do this work in my

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way, so I'm keeping hold of it.

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Enough.

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And that's, that was quite challenging for me because I've always been

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quite organized around other people.

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I think it's very easy to feel like, oh, I want to do this with someone.

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It's safer.

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But right now, yes, it's more powerful.

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I work with Rose from start to conversation to deliver some

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of the training that I do and other stuff I do on my own.

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And so, yeah, just navigating that, tuning in.

Speaker: 00:38:58

Hmm.

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It matters like trust, I, I trust my intuition more and more now, but that

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is after I've got the stuff out the way that wasn't necessary intuition.

Speaker: 00:39:07

It was more like programming from the past.

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I, I know personally, whenever, and I was chatting to Ruth about this earlier

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on this other podcast, this idea of.

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' cause she was saying something like, it was really pioneering,

Speaker: 00:39:18

pioneering you guys starting chapters.

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Did you realize how pioneering it was?

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And I said it didn't feel pioneering because it wasn't part of the plan.

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We didn't have a plan.

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It was very organic.

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Like you Beth, this kind of rolling vision that unfolds based on people

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you meet and connections that happen.

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And so for me it's, I don't know, it feels like as soon as there's a thing

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that I feel like I have to do because there's a plan tell, tells me to do

Speaker: 00:39:41

that, I personally just lose all energy.

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That structure makes me feel very constrained.

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And there's times when structure's helpful, but I think structure too

Speaker: 00:39:48

early, um, is I find constraining because it feels like we're trying to

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force certainty for force certainty into something that actually

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needs space to be a bit messy.

Speaker: 00:39:58

Back to the topic.

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And I think that's where having a bit of a financial security base really comes

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in because you are not just saying yes to things because it's a bit of money.

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Mm. It just gives you that breathing space.

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I think that's actually, that's a very good example there where it makes

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sense, but it doesn't feel right.

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Sometimes there will be a project, all right, that could really, you know,

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help financially, but there's something about it that isn't quite right.

Speaker: 00:40:26

And so what I wanted to unpick there is sometimes it's a true gut feeling.

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This isn't a right project for you, and sometimes it's just a fear of.

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Expectations that you are carrying of being able to perform.

Speaker: 00:40:40

It's like, oh my God, it's so much money I'll never be able to, you know,

Speaker: 00:40:43

do the work because it's the pressure of that much money when in fact you

Speaker: 00:40:47

could do it with your eyes closed.

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And it's just the fear of being judged or getting it wrong, which

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you never will get it wrong.

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was trying to really, uh, sort of pinpoint with that,

Speaker: 00:40:57

that ability to discern.

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Is it a true knowing or is it something that's holding you back?

Speaker: 00:41:05

I

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think, or maybe you're not ready.

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Yeah,

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I had meetings with schools one, one school felt amazing.

Speaker: 00:41:10

Yes, I definitely want to do this.

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And another school, it was terrifying.

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I was not ready for that.

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And that was the right decision.

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And my gut feeling knew it and it was really strong.

Speaker: 00:41:20

And this is where I be really, I'm really curious and what I think is

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important about this nervous system regulation and understanding is that

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ability, particularly for people who are so head driven, who will just cut

Speaker: 00:41:33

everything, any signal off from the neck downwards because they either don't

Speaker: 00:41:37

believe it or they judge it, what the impact that has on the quality of their

Speaker: 00:41:41

work, the benefit of the people that they're gonna serve, and also their

Speaker: 00:41:45

own physical and mental wellbeing.

Speaker: 00:41:47

All of that comes about because they ignore doing, or have judged doing

Speaker: 00:41:52

anything around this messy human part that people struggle with.

Speaker: 00:41:57

So, um, so there's something about being lovely and messy, uh, that

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I think would benefit anyone.

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Uh.

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Whatever stage of business they're at, and whatever challenge or

Speaker: 00:42:08

struggle they're facing, because it isn't necessarily just about the

Speaker: 00:42:11

situation, it's about what's inside that's going on at the same time.

Speaker: 00:42:16

What's next?

Speaker: 00:42:17

Beth?

Speaker: 00:42:17

Where are you going?

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Is there anything that's coming up for you?

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What's the plan?

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Yeah.

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Don't ask me what the plan is.

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You know what I'm, I mean the audience for what I'm doing is so huge.

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So the plan is now I believe in it, stop hiding even more and get it out there.

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So that's the na the plan come 2025.

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I just need to get it out there.

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Because I see the impact it has as soon as people real hear it and you

Speaker: 00:42:44

know, a 10 minute conversation totally reframes for people, something they've

Speaker: 00:42:48

been worried about and scared about and haven't known how to deal with.

Speaker: 00:42:52

So I now need to get that out to as many people as possible.

Speaker: 00:42:56

it's time to like step it up a bit.

Speaker: 00:42:59

And is this the, the potentially the ebook you're talking about?

Speaker: 00:43:02

Or do you have any other thoughts or e ideas, ebook,

Speaker: 00:43:05

social media.

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I am not a natural social media person.

Speaker: 00:43:08

That's the another growth area.

Speaker: 00:43:11

Just getting out there and having conversations.

Speaker: 00:43:13

That's one thing I'm noticing as if I talk to someone, they

Speaker: 00:43:16

say, oh, we want this within 30 seconds, but if I send a load of

Speaker: 00:43:20

emails out, it's a bit different.

Speaker: 00:43:22

So actually it's about getting out there in the world instead of

Speaker: 00:43:25

sitting at home and writing a nice marketing plan of key messages and.

Speaker: 00:43:29

All of that.

Speaker: 00:43:29

So do

Speaker: 00:43:30

see got on TikTok?

Speaker: 00:43:31

No.

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Is that part of your 20 fund five marketing plan?

Speaker: 00:43:35

I might pay my daughter to do that or something.

Speaker: 00:43:38

So the, the, the phrase that's coming to mind on the approach is how to

Speaker: 00:43:42

scale your impact without burning out how to reach more people, but in a way

Speaker: 00:43:47

that feels energetic and flow full.

Speaker: 00:43:49

I think where where's coming up for me is like there you can always get

Speaker: 00:43:52

suggestions of, oh, we did it this way.

Speaker: 00:43:54

You know, had hargraves signature workshop.

Speaker: 00:43:57

Do that, take it to all the communities and start building your audience that

Speaker: 00:44:01

way and bring it and then do a podcast.

Speaker: 00:44:03

'cause then you can use your, you know, people can download post everyone's

Speaker: 00:44:05

doing podcasts or start a substack.

Speaker: 00:44:08

'cause if we've got a Substack then you know, you get the

Speaker: 00:44:09

email address, all these things.

Speaker: 00:44:11

Um, but then there's what fits for you, what feels right for you.

Speaker: 00:44:16

That seems to be the key thing

Speaker: 00:44:18

there is.

Speaker: 00:44:19

But I also know I am still playing it safe.

Speaker: 00:44:22

Definitely.

Speaker: 00:44:23

So I need to just stop playing it safe and I would like to do that.

Speaker: 00:44:27

So Lawrence tell Beth what to do so she doesn't play it safe.

Speaker: 00:44:30

What would you suggest she do?

Speaker: 00:44:32

Uh.

Speaker: 00:44:33

Become a positive influencer on TikTok, where you share daily tips to teenage

Speaker: 00:44:40

girls, but probably their parents and probably their teachers and leaders too.

Speaker: 00:44:44

And yeah, I'm, I suppose I'm sitting with this curiosity of how

Speaker: 00:44:47

do you scale this and grow this 'cause there's so much need for it.

Speaker: 00:44:50

And also not lose sight of the original audience for this.

Speaker: 00:44:54

That's a question I'm sitting with.

Speaker: 00:44:56

'cause the idea of maybe you feel like you're hiding and also maybe

Speaker: 00:44:59

you could scale it too quick, is a, is a, is a challenge, I suppose.

Speaker: 00:45:04

Um, when there, when, when there's so much need for this everywhere.

Speaker: 00:45:06

Curious about that.

Speaker: 00:45:07

'cause again, when you think of social media or bring it out

Speaker: 00:45:09

there, like where do you go?

Speaker: 00:45:11

There's so many different routes, like said, so many channels,

Speaker: 00:45:14

so many people that need this.

Speaker: 00:45:15

I, and I have a pattern throughout my career of doing myself outta a job.

Speaker: 00:45:20

That's always the aim.

Speaker: 00:45:20

So once this information's out there, I won't need to do it anymore.

Speaker: 00:45:24

And then what else can I do?

Speaker: 00:45:25

That's really cool.

Speaker: 00:45:26

So I guess that should be my goal,

Speaker: 00:45:28

Yes.

Speaker: 00:45:28

And um, it's depending if you do yourself outta the job, 'cause you don't

Speaker: 00:45:32

want the responsibility of it anymore.

Speaker: 00:45:34

Because I think what's coming to mind is you have the, you have the

Speaker: 00:45:38

opportunity and the ability to educate people at a distance where you're

Speaker: 00:45:42

not, that you can write and you can present stuff information in a way.

Speaker: 00:45:47

And you know it in that well enough at a cognitive and an emotional level

Speaker: 00:45:51

to talk people's language so they can try and understand it for themselves.

Speaker: 00:45:55

And as I understand it, they will need some kind of support, a someone to look

Speaker: 00:46:00

up to, to connect with, not necessarily medical or like psychological, but

Speaker: 00:46:05

someone that they feel safe with.

Speaker: 00:46:08

And so there is, there seems to be something around that where

Speaker: 00:46:11

you can still be in the mission, but not necessarily having to do

Speaker: 00:46:16

yourself out of a job in a sense,

Speaker: 00:46:18

So that tad parras quote around when you've traveled a certain

Speaker: 00:46:21

terrain, you have wisdom to share with people who are at an earlier

Speaker: 00:46:25

stage of a similar journey.

Speaker: 00:46:27

But also I know that young people and you know, the, and young

Speaker: 00:46:31

adults who are struggling and going through what I'm going through,

Speaker: 00:46:33

they look at me and my life now and they're like, wow, that's possible.

Speaker: 00:46:38

I can be here where I am now and one day be there.

Speaker: 00:46:41

So it's not just a communication job as,

Speaker: 00:46:45

nice.

Speaker: 00:46:45

And there's something I'm coming away with.

Speaker: 00:46:47

You're relatable.

Speaker: 00:46:49

You know, you're talking about the gym kit versus the, the suit, the,

Speaker: 00:46:52

the way that people can open up to you when, when you're not the

Speaker: 00:46:55

expert, you are someone like them.

Speaker: 00:46:57

That feels the big thing here.

Speaker: 00:46:59

You're not the mental health expert telling them what they're doing wrong

Speaker: 00:47:02

or making them feel bad, but you're actually feeling like they're sharing,

Speaker: 00:47:05

you're sharing that journey with them.

Speaker: 00:47:06

Any, any final thoughts from you, Beth, before we close?

Speaker: 00:47:10

Just that I hope that's helped people who maybe even at a very, very early

Speaker: 00:47:15

stage have a hint of an idea that what they've been through or an experience

Speaker: 00:47:20

they've had could help others.

Speaker: 00:47:21

And they don't know how or when or where they're going to start

Speaker: 00:47:24

talking about that, but just it will happen when it's meant to happen.

Speaker: 00:47:28

I totally believe that as long as we focus on what the little

Speaker: 00:47:32

steps that we need to take next.

Speaker: 00:47:35

To keep growing, developing, getting rid of those fears and things that

Speaker: 00:47:38

are in the way it will happen.

Speaker: 00:47:40

And that might be in two years or 10 years.

Speaker: 00:47:42

And that's fine.

Speaker: 00:47:43

Well, I now know what needs to happen next for me lunch,

Speaker: 00:47:47

so thank you everyone.

Speaker: 00:47:49

Anyone

Speaker: 00:47:49

on the current cohort, please launch something by the end of the program.

Speaker: 00:47:51

Just ignore.

Speaker: 00:47:52

Yeah,

Speaker: 00:47:52

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 00:47:53

Doesn't we're on you now.

Speaker: 00:47:55

We're, we're gonna set Beth on you right.

Speaker: 00:47:58

That nervous system and get shit done.