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Episode 110

Being the true you

One of the things Laurence and Carlos are really passionate about at the Happy Startup School is helping entrepreneurs build businesses that are aligned to who they really are.

Most people they work with are experienced professionals or seasoned business owners who are looking for a different work path: a path that feels less effortful and alive.

Up until now the path they’ve followed seemed like the right one as they felt like they were achieving and succeeding. However, they were eventually left feeling drained and even burnt out.

According to Gaiai Pollini, one of the causes for this is that they weren’t being true to themselves. They had made decisions and taken actions that weren’t actually theirs. They were based on behaviours that were learned at a young age in order to meet their needs and which have stayed with them into adulthood.

If you start a business to make a fundamental change in your life but base your decisions on your adaptive behaviours, there’s a good chance you won’t make the change you wanted.

To make this change you need to identify the source you. Your source is true and fresh in the moment while your layers of adaptive behaviours can constrict and constrain.

In this episode, Gaia shares the five different styles of adaptation she uses in her work:

  • The outsider
  • The helper
  • The super person
  • The people pleaser
  • The perfectionist

This conversation will help you explore yourself with curiosity and self-kindness and invite you to do some self-reflection so that when you come to creating something new in your life, it will be relevant to your truth, and who you really are.

Links

Transcript
Carlos:

We are international today.

Carlos:

Just, you know, we're, Laurence is in Saltdean.

Carlos:

I'm in Hove.

Carlos:

And we have Gaia.

Carlos:

Who is in,

Gaia:

I'm in the Fano, Italy

Carlos:

Fano.

Carlos:

Where's the nearest big city e Fano?

Gaia:

It is, um, probably the most well known is Bologna,

Carlos:

I love bologna.

Carlos:

Oh, oh my God.

Carlos:

So before we, we explore a bit more, uh, about this thing, about, uh, being me, it would be useful, I think to just give people a bit of a insight into your work.

Gaia:

I'm a creative at heart, uh, and I find for me, therapy is a creative endeavor.

Gaia:

I don't know if other people think of it that way, but I quite like to think of it that way.

Gaia:

It is really about finding ways to support people to express themself.

Gaia:

And for me, if, if, if the therapist is not a creative person, that doesn't really work.

Gaia:

But I did start my life as a creative, I used to work in advertising as a creative.

Gaia:

And that's where I actually met my partner with whom then we set up a holistic business.

Gaia:

And I mean, so although it was really great fun, I I, I kind of knew it wasn't gonna be my call forever.

Gaia:

So I'm also a career changer.

Gaia:

I completely changed life.

Gaia:

And I had an interest forever in psychology and self development and holistic stuff, which I already had started developing while I was in advertising.

Gaia:

And then, um, I got to a stage where I was trained enough to actually start working as a, a holistic practitioner, and I did so and I had a training to that.

Gaia:

And then with my partner, we left, uh, England and moved to Italy, and we set up a big holistic center.

Gaia:

Uh, which was called The Hill That Breathes.

Gaia:

And we basically started hosting, uh, running and then hosting loads and loads of, um, personal development work.

Gaia:

And then we came up with this idea on which we, with which we worked for years, which is our Fuck it uh, work fu, Fuck it the Ultimate Spiritual Way.

Laurence:

Sounds better in an Italian accent.

Gaia:

Does it?

Carlos:

I I actually read that book for the first time in the Alps at Alptitude, yeah.

Gaia:

So yeah, so the whole thing is really about the whole Fuck it thing really took off and then we spend a lot of time, so.

Gaia:

Supporting people saying Fuck it and feeling you know, what's important and what's not.

Gaia:

And from there I started developing, uh, some other work.

Gaia:

Uh, I am, I've trained for years as a trauma therapist, trauma, but trauma, like the child patterns based stuff that stays with us for a long time.

Gaia:

And, uh, I develop my own work based on different, I have various trainings, both kind of body based and mind based and psychological based, and I put them together and spiritual, uh, but all through the, the, the finding of the true self.

Gaia:

So I put together my own work, um, that I offer people, I train people in, which is called Being Me Therapy.

Gaia:

And it's really about discovering, um, that some of the stuff we thought it was us, it's not really, and it can be a really pleasant discovery.

Gaia:

It can be a little scary discovery or both, usually both at the same time.

Gaia:

And how then, you know, once you have the inquiry, how to go around it, how to really start discerning, uh, what's what.

Carlos:

so the first thing I wanted to maybe just talk about in terms of setting the scene.

Carlos:

There's this, there's this process of the Being Me therapy.

Carlos:

Um, and it sounds surprising and scary.

Carlos:

What have you seen as an outcome that's generated for people, um, or that, that you've the discovered that you've really enjoyed seeing happen for people when they do this work?

Gaia:

I mean, there's many things, but the first that comes for me is the widening.

Gaia:

Uh, we tend to make the trucks narrower because of the way we learn to survive.

Gaia:

And so, like, I do this, I'm, this, this is how I feel safe.

Gaia:

And sometimes it gets narrower and narrower as we carry on with life.

Gaia:

And we tend to get more unhappy the more hour it gets.

Gaia:

And with this work, I see people doing that basically.

Carlos:

Mm.

Gaia:

So that the, the definitions get loose, so the curiosity gets higher, people get more curious.

Gaia:

They don't get stuck with what, you know, this kind of defensive and protective thing that we all have, and it's natural that we have it.

Gaia:

Uh, so actually people get a lot more creative.

Gaia:

And they get, they, they get a sense of what feels right.

Gaia:

So I find that that's, that brings courage.

Gaia:

So it's not a courage, like, uh, but it's a courage that comes from the heart, you know, being in our hearts.

Gaia:

That's why I really love that people become more expressive and more creative and more wide, because they have a much, this is really about the relationship with ourselves, a much clearer relationship with themselves and their hearts and their desires.

Carlos:

I, I love the idea, the, the widening, the, the, i just the, the expanse of a horizon springs to mind and just to be able to just see it like a whole vista that's open to us as opposed to, like you said, the train tracks.

Carlos:

And I think it's particularly interesting for our work because we are trying to get people to be a bit more creative with the way they work, and a bit more open to different ways of, of looking at this journey of work and life.

Gaia:

Yeah.

Carlos:

And we do.

Carlos:

Hit roadblocks occasionally while, because while we can share approaches and techniques and, and methodologies for creating businesses and thinking about money or just thinking about even how we talk about ourselves and promote ourselves, yeah, that, that doesn't help when people aren't able to just be playful and creative with it.

Laurence:

Well, I was actually curious with Gaia, what you see with the people around them, because I think we found this when someone has an experience where they expand, you know, it sounds like you're talking about expanse an more expansive experience of life.

Gaia:

Yeah.

Laurence:

How the people around them respond to that.

Laurence:

If.

Laurence:

They're happy with them on that little single track.

Gaia:

Yeah.

Gaia:

That's, that's the process that comes after people expand.

Laurence:

That's the, that's the upgrade.

Laurence:

That's the next retreat.

Gaia:

It's really interesting to watch, you know, when people, I call it the Ah moment when, when these things, these layers of adaptation go, let's say in a session and they land, they can, it is like a wound awake and it's like, Ooh, okay, that's how I feel for real.

Gaia:

And then it, it's like people land themselves and literal actually energetically, but there is really a sense of expansion and people can see more sharply, they get clear about what they feel, what they want and all of that.

Gaia:

Round two often is then how it is in the environment.

Gaia:

Uh, because what's also interesting is we train others in our own adaptive mechanisms.

Gaia:

So for example, one is the helper, which is people that help everyone all of the time.

Gaia:

And what we do usually unconsciously, we train people into us.

Gaia:

So we, we get everyone used to the fact that we are gonna be there helping everyone all of the time.

Laurence:

Mm-hmm.

Gaia:

So then once we kind of land and pop and kind of go, oh fuck, I learned that too.

Gaia:

It's actually not my real character.

Gaia:

I'm much happier being able to ask for why I need them, blah, blah, blah.

Gaia:

Then we, we trained people in thinking and expecting that we help everyone.

Gaia:

So sometimes, often there is another piece of work to do, uh, with our environment of staying basically staying with the expansion.

Gaia:

And it is expansion, contraction, because of course we go to the people we love and they go like, Ooh, I thought you were gonna do that for me.

Gaia:

And you go like, Ooh, you know, you're gonna abandon me now I don't help you.

Gaia:

So it's that, it's that, uh, interplay and that exploration.

Gaia:

And it's really, that's also helpful to start watching this going on in us, you know, that like, Ooh, I can't, I will, I am.

Gaia:

And then it's like, oh no, they don't like you.

Gaia:

Oh.

Gaia:

And it's like, okay, no, that's, that's normal, um, what do I feel?

Gaia:

What feels real?

Gaia:

What feels true?

Gaia:

Okay.

Gaia:

How can we collaborate with that?

Gaia:

How can we work together with that?

Gaia:

If that's a bit, uh, surprising for you that I'm not quite the same as I was before.

Carlos:

So there's two things I wanted to pick up on that and just dive into firstly the whole feeling thing.

Carlos:

So one element is intellectually I've been so talking to you about this stuff and also some other background reading.

Carlos:

Totally understand or totally under, I feel like I understand what this means.

Carlos:

Yeah.

Carlos:

And then there's this whole feeling aspect.

Gaia:

Yeah.

Carlos:

And this kind of bodily aspect of how we make decisions or move forward.

Carlos:

So I'm really curious about that split or how they work together.

Carlos:

Cuz like there's situations where I will want to choose, you know, I'll do a cost benefit analysis, I'll do some SWAT thing, you know, I'll say, ah, logically let's do that.

Carlos:

And then there's, I assume, another situation where it's like, I don't have, I don't think it's just, I'm gonna do this and there's something physically that tells me that this is the thing to do.

Carlos:

And then my mind comes back in and said, but that thing, that thing, is that something that's actually I've learned because it's like a fear response about something?

Carlos:

Or is it really me authentically saying, this is your truth, go ahead and do it?

Gaia:

I'm going to try to give you a sense, clearly is a quite profound work because we will all have, I like that you said the word split.

Gaia:

Because really, and also that's why I feel like really saying to people listening is we work, we need to work with the split.

Gaia:

Cuz we have many voices inside and one of them may be the truth and then all the others rush in and go, are you sure?

Gaia:

You know, terrible things are gonna happen?

Gaia:

Or, oh no, that's not really the truth.

Gaia:

And that's really this, this, that's really the work.

Gaia:

And we can also do it in self-serving of noticing when something starts merging that feels quite exciting or interesting.

Gaia:

And there are signs usually or something that feels a little bit more aligned than what happens next.

Gaia:

So there's other bits that come in.

Gaia:

So in a way, an immediate thing I can suggest is to start to really get it that we are made of many parts.

Gaia:

And some parts are much more fresh and true and real in the moment.

Gaia:

And some parts are much more adaptive and self-doubting and maybe much more.

Gaia:

And I, I, I, I'm not someone that thinks rational is wrong, is just like, where is the place for it?

Gaia:

And if it is an adaptive rash, so if it's something that just really gets controlling or if it is just like, uh, the, the mental part that just needs to check things out.

Gaia:

I'm gonna show a little card that I use because there are kind of four, uh, four core parts.

Gaia:

They're using the work.

Carlos:

So child, adult, source and field.

Gaia:

So this is, these are the core.

Gaia:

There's many elements of the world, but I want to share these cuz these are the core four parts that's really helpful to get a kind of relationship with.

Gaia:

So when we are looking at something, there'll be some feelings they're really old and that's the child part.

Gaia:

And again, it is nothing bad about it, is not like we wanted to grow up and mature.

Gaia:

But it is helpful to recognize in this kind of inner, in inner conversations that we have, and we all have them all the time, I have a feeling that, oh no, you can't do that, you can't feel that, to start recognizing which feelings feels quite, um, like a, has been there for ages.

Gaia:

And when we start recognizing a little bit, it is like we can tidy up a little bit out in the conversations.

Gaia:

The adult I use it, please think of as adaptive adults.

Gaia:

So it tends to be the kinda structured controller.

Gaia:

This is how it should be done, this is how the adult work.

Gaia:

It work is, this is how things work in the world.

Gaia:

So it's quite, it is a quite, uh, structured adult.

Gaia:

So we can start, sometimes I just, even just suggesting to clients, so what part do you think that is?

Gaia:

And they go, oh yes, that's the adaptive adult that's really trying to please everyone.

Gaia:

And so, you know, you start getting a sense of what feels more true and what feels more adapted or old.

Gaia:

And that's where I introduced the, this word source.

Gaia:

And I, people can use what, what feels right for them.

Gaia:

Being me can be another word for source.

Gaia:

It's like that deeper place that's, uh, less structured, more fresh.

Gaia:

Tends to be a little bit more alive.

Gaia:

And that's when you ask about the feeling, Carlos, that's, uh, usually what that feeling is.

Gaia:

So I sometimes ask people, if you go, if you let yourself drop a little bit deeper, what do you find there?

Gaia:

And we may still find an adaptive layer, but it starts to become easier to recognize.

Gaia:

So that's, that's why I call the source.

Gaia:

And again, everyone can use their, uh, the words that works for them.

Gaia:

Uh, the field is the energy field.

Gaia:

Uh, so it's, um, sense of self and psyche and body.

Gaia:

And for me is, I also include the work with the energy field, which is the e expanded, the wider self.

Gaia:

And when, you know, when we start looking at the parts and the different ways we cover up or not, it, it, it can be really part of the work to notice how this, uh, why the space behaves and if it lets too much in or not.

Gaia:

So I include and introduce the experience of the energy field and also boundaries through the energy and also how certain previous experience still sit in our field and we keep feeling them all the time.

Gaia:

So I include that in my model cuz it really helps the work and spits up the work.

Gaia:

People start, rather than knowing so much in the story all the time, can start really feeling what the energy is of something and it just makes things really quite immediate.

Gaia:

So if you, if you have a situation and I ask you what do you feel the energy is and you go immediately, oh is attack.

Gaia:

But if, if we go to the store and everything, it just may take like two hours and then you get it, that's what you are actually experiencing is someone's pulling back or is attack or, and then we can really go for what's uh, so it's a little bit less narrative led and it's a bit more really sensation experience led in that way and it can bypass longer.

Carlos:

To be honest for a bit.

Carlos:

I, I felt you were getting a bit woowoo and I was going, what do you mean energy field around me?

Carlos:

And I was trying to hold onto something and please help me with this because I, I'm trying to get my head around this energy field aspect.

Carlos:

So I was thinking of music

Gaia:

Yes.

Carlos:

And just having like a room full of sound and music.

Gaia:

Yeah.

Carlos:

And then there's like a little, ah, an ee and a urgh, and it's like, it is, it is just, what is it I'm hearing or sensing in that sense, in that space as opposed to, I dunno, again, I try sometimes find it difficult to think about energy fields cuz I'm a physicist.

Gaia:

Yeah.

Gaia:

But you can use another word.

Gaia:

I mean, you can just think of a specific interaction you have with someone.

Gaia:

Uh, if you think, uh, also people listening, think of a maybe a, a slightly challenging interaction you had with someone, uh, recently.

Gaia:

And just, just for a moment, notice the text, the, the vibe of it.

Gaia:

What's, what's actually what you actually get in touch with.

Gaia:

It's like, um, juice of it.

Gaia:

Not, not intellectually maybe.

Gaia:

That I call energy, but you can call it something else, but it's just like a, a sense from a different place.

Gaia:

Does that make sense for you?

Carlos:

Yeah, that helps.

Carlos:

That helps.

Carlos:

The word, the quality of it sprang to mind, but that's just my, the way I kind of trying to grasp onto it.

Gaia:

Yeah, we can.

Gaia:

Yeah.

Carlos:

Yeah.

Gaia:

I'm reading about transactional analysis.

Gaia:

It's quite interesting.

Gaia:

When I created these, I didn't know about transactional analysis.

Gaia:

And after I created it, people told me about it.

Gaia:

I used them in slightly different ways because my adult is an adaptive adult.

Gaia:

So I'm using, uh, adaptive mechanism theory, uh, which is slightly different from transactional analysis.

Gaia:

And then I have my other parts, the source and fields, which are, because the transactional analysis has got child and adults, but they're using them, the adult is used in a different way.

Gaia:

Uh, so when you hear me say adult think adaptive adult, so, uh, is an adult that's like a, a version of the child, but in an adult shape.

Gaia:

Um, so in terms of feeling, I really invite people into feel and into discern what is, um, a repetitive feeling.

Gaia:

Why they're rec, why they're recognized as, uh, very familiar, uh, and repetitive, and what feels, uh, fresh and a bit more surprising and a bit more in the moment.

Gaia:

And that's usually the cue that tells you if this is source or is likely to be, um, either child or adoptive adult.

Gaia:

Uh, so default.

Gaia:

So really starting because feeling, reconnecting to feeling is really important and is important to recognize what is default and repetitive.

Gaia:

And we know it very well, it's happened many, many times.

Gaia:

So that tends to be a repetition.

Gaia:

Or what feels, ooh, a little bit fresh and in the moment and a little bit more alive and sometimes a little bit scary too.

Carlos:

That's really helpful.

Carlos:

Really helpful.

Carlos:

Because I think there's something there, like you said, that thing about the repetitive, I'd link that to the protective thing of like, oh, okay, I, I'll go there because I know if I go there, It's safe, it's kind of thing.

Gaia:

Yes, yes.

Carlos:

And that's, and that's helping me identify versus something like, Ooh, ooh, didn't feel like this.

Gaia:

Yes.

Carlos:

And that's new and like you said, fresh.

Gaia:

Where does that come from?

Carlos:

That's really helpful in terms of just understanding that sense or how to sense that rather than it, like everything's just a feeling that's pushing me in a direction that I don't understand kind of thing.

Gaia:

Yeah.

Gaia:

And it's, it is interesting cuz you know, all of those are feelings.

Gaia:

Is not that fear is not true, is a feeling, is just, if it's a fear that I've been, you know, it's just keeps coming around in my life, it is likely not really to be a, a reflection of what's going on.

Gaia:

So it's really helpful to recognize the difference, be between something that's a bit default and it's part of that, mm, fear and that's, yeah.

Carlos:

Yeah, constriction.

Gaia:

Yeah.

Carlos:

I wanted to look back a little bit to what Laurence said before because I heard two different things in that question about we pop, whatever that means.

Carlos:

We expand, we come back to our, uh, familiar relationships, families, friends with a different way of looking at the world.

Carlos:

And then on one hand I heard you say, Gaia this and then that, that feels like a pressure that then maybe pushes you back to where you were before because of the understanding of, but you were like that?

Carlos:

I said, oh yeah, I was like that.

Carlos:

And said, oh, I'll go back to that.

Carlos:

And then the other aspect, which I, I was wondering was what Laurence was talking about of how they respond.

Carlos:

You know, you're not changing now, but you're now impacting on these people.

Carlos:

They either contract themselves even more, or is there an invitation to expand?

Carlos:

And is there something that we can do or something that we need to be aware of?

Carlos:

Because is it in a, in one sense, is their responsibility to grow and expand?

Carlos:

You can't do anything about that.

Carlos:

But as well as someone who's aware that actually I'm looking at the world differently, what awareness do I need with that to have, when I'm relating to other people in my old way?

Laurence:

My immediate thing was about how they respond to them, they, them growing in terms of that, how that impacts on them directly.

Laurence:

So like you said, if you said, like you said the other day, like, oh, the organizing version of me is the adaptive version of me.

Laurence:

It's not one that I'm comfortable with.

Laurence:

So if you said, right, I'm gonna stop being that person now and stop doing any of the organizing with the work we do, I'd be like, oh, how does that affect me now?

Laurence:

But also by you growing then, does that inspire me or give other people permission to then grow themselves?

Carlos:

Nice.

Laurence:

Maybe that's it.

Gaia:

Yeah, really good example.

Gaia:

The, again, the, the.

Gaia:

The clearest thing I, I can say is that if we have an expansion and, and it can have an effect, I think if it's a true grounded expansion rather than a blech and it is not really grounded in our cells, the blech usually scares others more because it's not grounded, number one.

Gaia:

So generally, when we have a true grounded expansion connected with ourselves, it is less scary for others because we're really present and when others feel.

Gaia:

Remember, this is also about nervous system regulation.

Gaia:

If you are with someone who's really regulated in the nervous system, it's calming for everyone, even if they're breaking some news that you may not want to hear.

Gaia:

If you are doing it from a really present, grounded, uh, being new place, it actually has an immediate, uh, regulating calming effect on others as well.

Gaia:

If your, if your decision is coming from a dysregulated, just kind of throwing things around, it will be actually scary for others.

Carlos:

Hmm.

Gaia:

Then the important thing again is if and when others start throwing their things around because they now is scared that you're not, we used to be and all that, if we then come up with fears, which we will by the way, so it, it really is that, that game of back and forth, if we come out of this regulated centric, uh, through connected place, then it's a bit more troublesome because then it's them scared and activated and new scared and activated.

Gaia:

And it's, so that's really, it's really again about developing this thing of, of landing in our cells and staying there in a deep connection and it is much easier to connect to the other from that place.

Gaia:

Also, when they may regress or they may get worried if we then don't react by regressing, getting worried or making ourselves bigger than we are, whatever, uh, then there is one of us who's staying and, and it, it's like a reference.

Gaia:

I, I made a little drawing.

Gaia:

I don't have the one that I usually use, but I did it here.

Gaia:

So there's two per people like, uh, um, the, the bigger images present, grounded and inside there is these two smaller versions.

Gaia:

So maybe I turn up ladies after having had my moment of truth and the other person goes, oh, you're not gonna want to do, and they go here.

Gaia:

And if I then as a reaction go here, then it's too little lost, panicky, uh, dealing with each other that if you stay there, eventually they come back basically.

Gaia:

So, yeah, that's the, that's the thing of like finding a way to keep referring to that grounded present and truthful, uh, regular nervous system, regulated place, which of course, we need time to discover because we all have things that take us outta ourselves and we go into various adaptation lies and whatever, and these regulations, and so we slowly discover that and then it's easier to show up with that in the world.

Gaia:

And then it has a massive effect outside too, cuz people later a wobble.

Gaia:

But if we stay

Carlos:

That, I found that really useful in even like relating it to somewhere like Summercamp where, it's presented as a place of play.

Carlos:

But we also have had experiences where things are uncovered and people, I wouldn't say pop, but start discovering things about themselves that they hadn't realized before.

Carlos:

And this, and I think one of the things I was really curious about is, I love that idea, but how do we do that from this grounded place?

Carlos:

It's kind of like where we don't go back either, like, ah, or we go back, ah, and then everyone else around us, something goes, go, ah, so it feels irresponsible in a sense to, to just say, oh, let's just be our authentic selves and yeah, fuck 'em.

Carlos:

It's like, no.

Carlos:

And I like, and I like that idea of how do we do this in a grounded way?

Carlos:

And it, and for me it's coming across as this, this is not a quick, this is a.

Carlos:

Journey that takes time and, and effort.

Carlos:

And that's, I'm really.

Laurence:

And so your, your program's three years, right?

Laurence:

Or three or four years or so?

Gaia:

Yeah.

Gaia:

My training is three years, yeah.

Laurence:

Yeah.

Gaia:

Yeah.

Gaia:

It is both, both of what you said.

Gaia:

It's, it's really, you know, we are relational being.

Gaia:

Our relationships are really important.

Gaia:

And so when we do land in our truth, that doesn't mean for often people get really scared that they lose everything and everything goes, but it's not really like that.

Gaia:

It's then a process of collaboration of how my, my truth can respect your truth.

Gaia:

And so I don't override myself, you don't override yourself.

Gaia:

But there is still a way to communicate.

Gaia:

And that's what really interests me because no one is interested

Gaia:

. I mean, sometimes things are really wrong for us and we really need to move on, but the idea is not like, you know, throwing everything away.

Gaia:

It's, it's really about finding how to, um, collaborate while really holding our own grounded truth in the space and seeing what effect the has.

Gaia:

And sometimes things don't work and they need to be let go for sure.

Gaia:

That also needs to be part of the truth.

Carlos:

And I think that's a really important aspect for me around this is like, when that decision happens, when that time comes, whether that's to quit your job, start a new business, change your life, it is coming from a very grounded place, um, as opposed to running away and say, oh, I don't like this anymore, I'm gonna do this.

Carlos:

And, and that.

Carlos:

And you end up still feeling the same way you did before because you haven't really dealt with what it is that you're trying to get away from.

Gaia:

Yeah, absolutely.

Gaia:

And it has to, it is very different if it comes from, uh, a real connection with ourselves, because then we are likely to produce something that's, uh, comes out of that real connection.

Gaia:

So this is really the work of what's disconnected and what's connective.

Gaia:

So, uh, yeah, we start noticing what takes us out and what takes us in or in connection, I mean, can be also with others of course.

Gaia:

And from that place, I find that usually people.

Gaia:

Get it right.

Gaia:

I mean, get, do, end up creating something that's full, that's nurturing, that's the word I even, yeah, fulfilling.

Gaia:

But it's similar is, is, uh, is enriching for them and therefore naturally enriching for others.

Gaia:

Otherwise, we are somehow trying to do something for something that's not, not to do with this nurturing Nhat natural.

Carlos:

So we have a question from Moana.

Carlos:

She's asking, does adapted adult, holds the set of beliefs?

Gaia:

Yes.

Gaia:

Usually belief.

Gaia:

Uh, so the, the, the, the original feelings tend to be more in the child part and they get repeated.

Gaia:

Belief tend to be held by the adaptive adults.

Gaia:

So it's like a conclusion based on certain feelings and certain experiences.

Gaia:

So let's say, I wasn't really met properly as a child.

Gaia:

I wasn't seen, um, and nurtured properly, then the sense is like the, the, the con the child conclusion is, there's something wrong with me.

Gaia:

The, the later on we may end up with a belief that I'm like unlovable, let's say.

Gaia:

Often the adult, it is based on something that the child felt and go in touch with, and usually the adult holds the belief,

Carlos:

Yeah, for some reason, I, I'm, I'm thinking about a wine that has matured over years and now it has a certain quality that's like, ah, okay, this is me.

Gaia:

Yeah.

Gaia:

And it's interesting.

Gaia:

It's called identification.

Gaia:

We identify with that.

Gaia:

So we actually believe that that's me, but create something to discover, actually, no.

Carlos:

Well, all right.

Carlos:

Yeah, we're gonna get into that in a bit, uh, Francis was asking how do you differentiate between the source?

Carlos:

So I think this feeling or this, this message, something to listen to, uh, and the wish to escape from pain and, and looking, I think a hedonistic or approach or thinking just want simply more pleasure.

Gaia:

Yeah.

Gaia:

Very good question.

Gaia:

And again, that's really core part of this work For me, one great definition is the work helps you to work out what's what.

Gaia:

So I mean escaping has got a certain texture to it.

Gaia:

So then the, the exploration, the inquiry is are you escacping, are you avoiding?

Gaia:

A key word that I use in this work, are you avoiding something that's scary or painful or not?

Gaia:

So, yes, good question.

Gaia:

A good question to ask ourselves.

Gaia:

Is this an avoidance?

Gaia:

Is this a disconnection or is it a connection?

Gaia:

Is it, is it an avoidant avoidance or is it a connection?

Gaia:

I think guts wise, we can usually tell.

Gaia:

Clearly need some processing.

Gaia:

But you can even start with that question.

Gaia:

Is this, is this a connection or is it this connection?

Gaia:

Is it an avoidance or is it a connection?

Gaia:

Just that may be very helpful.

Carlos:

I, I I just wanted to pick up on something just from my own curiosity.

Carlos:

Uh, cuz you mentioned the word texture.

Carlos:

What is the texture of something?

Carlos:

And so when you're talking about the avoidance versus the connection, what sprung to mind was, you know, what is the texture of something?

Carlos:

I'm just about to do something, make a decision, or I'm gonna behave in a certain way.

Carlos:

And what is the texture of that experience?

Carlos:

And I was thinking one is like, Ooh, silky and smooth, or the other's like, Aluminum foil crunchy.

Carlos:

I'm like, ah, ah.

Carlos:

It's like, ah, not, it doesn't feel as pleasant.

Gaia:

That, that sounds also, sounds like you relate to that.

Gaia:

So that's, that for me is what's important.

Gaia:

Also, working with the truth sounds like that for you, that texture is something you, you immediately getting curious about it and can feel it.

Gaia:

So to you, um, maybe someone may be different, but to, to you, I certainly respond yeah, that sounds like it.

Gaia:

It's giving you a, a guidance or a, an orientation.

Gaia:

Now you're feeling the texture of one and the texture of the other, so you could go a little bit deeper into it and explore.

Gaia:

And I'll be curious because sometimes the texture can be a bit spiky, but there may be something really interesting in it.

Gaia:

So I would just then invite you to go bit deeper into the texture and see what you find.

Carlos:

I love that.

Carlos:

Therapy live.

Carlos:

Yeah, we're gonna have to talk.

Gaia:

I'm already very curious about your two textures and what's in there, really.

Gaia:

It's like, okay.

Gaia:

Is the door now, open.

Carlos:

Yeah, exactly.

Carlos:

Oh my God.

Carlos:

Yeah.

Carlos:

Well, next, next episode, uh, in Carlos and into Carlos's brain.

Carlos:

Okay.

Carlos:

uh, let's, get down to, well one of the things that we were gonna talk about is, is identifying these layers adaptive behaviors.

Carlos:

I, I'll over to you Gaia, maybe you can just explain more this aspect.

Gaia:

Yeah.

Gaia:

It's probably easiest way to call them is adaptive skies or adaptive mechanisms.

Gaia:

So basically the, the theory behind work.

Gaia:

And clearly, I, I, my work builds on trauma work, build on adaptation work.

Gaia:

Uh, it just goes back to the birth of psychotherapy.

Gaia:

Although I, I'm not a psychotherapist, I don't work with psychotherapy, but clearly has psychological elements in it.

Gaia:

Um, and the identification, identifying the different things that happen when we grow up and how that, depending on what developmental phase was, affected, affected, like when we didn't get met, meet properly, met properly, then we develop a certain style of coping.

Gaia:

And it's really interesting for people to start hearing about it because we are here, you remember I said the work is about what's which is, which is which, what is what, what is real, what is not?

Gaia:

So when we start, Uh, realizing that a certain type of, uh, style is an adaptation, then we immediately go like, Ooh, actually I recognize myself in that.

Gaia:

And, um, ooh, I thought that's, those was, you know, being really helpful.

Gaia:

I thought that was really my differences fraction.

Gaia:

And now you are telling me that is a coping mechanism.

Gaia:

So, um, it is, it can be helpful to identify, to learn, uh, and then work with and start, you know, these are parts of the sessions as well, uh, which are the five styles, the the five mechanisms.

Gaia:

Clearly these are things that can be worked with for a lot of time, but I, I'm just gonna say the title.

Gaia:

I, so I built on a, a tradition of character structures and I gave them my own names.

Gaia:

They're based really quite a bit on the behavioral aspects, so it's easier for people to recognize them.

Gaia:

I like to make my work really accessible, although clearly as well, this profound aspect to it.

Gaia:

So I, I give you the five and I give you in chronological order.

Gaia:

And this is not to say, you know, you were talking about the feeling thing?

Gaia:

What, what I wanna say, as I say is out is the, the beauty of this is the, the, this life force, this truth is within us, whatever the layers are.

Gaia:

So it is really about starting to differentiate.

Gaia:

So as I tell you what will happen and that, just remember that this is about recognizing was that and what's beneath which is the, the bme, the, the source.

Gaia:

So the first one I call the outsider.

Gaia:

And even just the name I'm speaking to you two and to the people listening, just notice what, what happens, you know, what, what, what does it bring up when I say the word, the outsider, and also if you feel like he has a, you know, you recognize it for you.

Gaia:

And I'm really gonna spend one minute on each.

Gaia:

So the i, I allow you to feel it first.

Gaia:

And if you kind of go, Hmm, that's, that, that's says, that's something that I could probably recognize in some things in me.

Gaia:

And this is the about stuff that happens early.

Gaia:

It's about some needs not being met really early in life.

Gaia:

And it's really about feeling that.

Gaia:

Um, the safety, that if you reach out you will find connection and one wasn't really there, not enough connection.

Gaia:

So we kind of expect there not to be enough connection.

Gaia:

So the, the behavior, usually the feeling is like I'm on the outside looking in, so everyone has belonged somewhere and I don't really do.

Gaia:

So it's this feeling of not belonging, and the behavior tends to then be about withdrawing and not actually asking for connection.

Gaia:

The fear is that if I ask, I won't find it.

Gaia:

And this very much ends up being I do it on my own.

Gaia:

It can be all these things turn into can turn into a pride based thing.

Gaia:

So like, well, but I am really good at doing it on my own, but the reality is the deep desire and the deep fear is to actually connect.

Gaia:

Uh, so that's the, that's the outside the mechanism where we just learn to sit on the outside and make it somewhere or another ourselves Okay.

Gaia:

With it, but we're not.

Carlos:

the outsider definitely resonated.

Carlos:

in terms of how I've, yeah, at that kind of needs being met aspect, but also in this, this sense of looking in a lot of the time.

Carlos:

Uh, and, and also I identified with the independent aspect of that, just being really wanting to be independent and do things on my own.

Carlos:

So that was, uh, yeah, that hit home.

Gaia:

Let's move on to the next.

Gaia:

It's quite hard to make them quick.

Gaia:

The second one is the helper.

Gaia:

Just check if that word resonates with you and if you get a yes if you're a helper.

Gaia:

It's also interesting what jobs these different adaptive mechanisms choose.

Gaia:

Once I made a game of people starting to guess what jobs a helper chooses or an outside chooses.

Gaia:

So helper is two more words about n not having had enough being seen and nurtured in the way we need it.

Gaia:

So we often feel a little bit invisible, and not heard, and like I don't matter enough.

Gaia:

And the behavioral thing is to give in order to get so we, to get the connection we give.

Gaia:

But what we actually.

Gaia:

Bypass is saying I need.

Gaia:

And it clearly doesn't, you know what's interesting in the adaptive mechanism don't work because the helper never gets their needs met cuz they're always meeting everyone's needs.

Gaia:

That's how we train people into our adaptations.

Laurence:

Mm-hmm.

Laurence:

Yeah.

Laurence:

I didn't really connect with the outside so much, but Okay.

Laurence:

Definitely the helper.

Laurence:

Mm-hmm.

Carlos:

Yeah

Gaia:

Uh, the next one is called the super Person.

Gaia:

So Abel capable, doable on the top of things.

Gaia:

Good at sorting everything out all of the time.

Gaia:

Needing to be on the top all of the time, otherwise is quite scary.

Gaia:

That's the super person, and it's really to deal with vulnera.

Gaia:

You know, someone asked the question, what if someone is avoiding?

Gaia:

It's actually to do the, the, the adaptation goes in the opposite direction of the true need.

Gaia:

The true need is to feel safe being vulnerable here.

Gaia:

So the super person is really avoiding the natural healthy dependency and vulnerability.

Gaia:

And we may have bits of, I have bits of all of these for sure.

Gaia:

I can be,

Carlos:

Well that one resonates definitely for me.

Gaia:

Yeah.

Gaia:

I move on to the next, because I wanna say all the titles.

Gaia:

The next one, and, uh, usually people go, yeah, is the people pleaser.

Gaia:

People pleaser is all about my own way.

Gaia:

This is so important for setting up businesses, because it's like when we started developing our own personality, it was not, um, supported.

Gaia:

So we started distressing our own way and we always lost in others ways.

Gaia:

So that for me is like about expressing ourselves.

Gaia:

That's who I'm, so trusting our own way versus pleasing.

Gaia:

And the last one is the perfectionist, and that's the last phase.

Gaia:

And it is to do with the love.

Gaia:

Sexuality is really, really interesting.

Gaia:

And it's about rejection and feeling like I have to become something perfect in order to be, uh, not rejected, but of course then it is all about masks and it doesn't work.

Gaia:

So that was a super quick that I hope very intriguing and an interesting and also may give you something to start looking at and think about.

Carlos:

Whew.

Carlos:

I feel I didn't want to do more.

Gaia:

Great.

Laurence:

I'm not a big fan of models necessarily, but this is really one that's made me curious because I can relate to a lot of what you talked about and, um, yeah, and, and I just like this idea that it's not a quick, it's not like a silver bullet fix.

Laurence:

This is li a lifelong journey and that's, I think, feels sustainable and I think you said nourishing.

Carlos:

uh, if people want to find out more about this work and working with you, where would you like to point them?

Gaia:

If you just Google Fuck it written out, you will find myself and John and then you'll find our site.

Carlos:

So thefuckitlife.com.

Carlos:

for those of you who are interested in, Gaia's work, and also maybe you know John as well, uh, you just wanna reacquaint yourself with their work, please check out the website.

Gaia:

On the, in the website at the top it says, uh, training.

Gaia:

And this actually explains quite a lot about the work.

Gaia:

That's the best way to hear a little bit more.

Carlos:

Awesome.

Laurence:

Mm-hmm.

Gaia:

Uh, I read recently just a line that I really liked and I am not so sure is, is said it in the way I feel it.

Gaia:

It is actually a Nietzsche's line and it's Become the person that you are.

Gaia:

And I really love it in the context of this, that you actually are, that, that's for me, when you say about the feeling, that's the feeling I like to live people with.

Gaia:

That we are, and the stuff on the top, and somehow the life journey is to actually become what we, we are already are, and it's covered by adaptation and survival and all that.

Gaia:

But I love this line because it's like, it's, it's there.

Gaia:

That's, that's my message is, is there we are it and things are on the top of it.

Gaia:

So I, I love that line for that.

Gaia:

I think you'd meant more about fulfilling and stuff, but for me it's really like, okay, we are, and then that's where we need to land in.

Gaia:

That's really, I, I would say that's a core message of the, uh, the work.

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