Episode 139
Boss like a mother; mother like a boss
Professional women are under overwhelming pressure to achieve it all – career, kids and caring partner.And to do it with an effortless smile.But it isn’t that easy.
It doesn’t mean that you can’t have it all, but according to Emma Draper, award-winning retail entrepreneur, property developer and mother, “we need to release ourselves of the guilt and just do the best we can”.
On the outside Emma is an amazing role model for female entrepreneurs. Over 23 years she’s built a multi-million pound business, had three kids and truly loves her work. But it didn’t come easy. She had to work damned hard to make it allwork.Patience, purpose and persistence have been key.
In this episode, Emma joins Carlos and Laurence to share what she’s learned about business, and more importantly, about herself over the past 23 years.
They cover leadership, culture and positioning as well as more personal topics like motherhood, personal growth and finding your why.
If you’re a female entrepreneur at the start of your journey or you’ve been in business for a few years but now feel stuck… and overwhelmed… this episode is for you.
It’s OK to want it all. Just give yourself some slack if it doesn’t come as easily as Instagram says it should.
Links
Transcript
Today we're talking to Emma Draper.
Carlos:You got kind of a portfolio business thing going on, haven't you?
Carlos:Uh, 'cause you've got.
Emma:Yeah.
Carlos:Velvet sort of shop and velvet property, so
Emma:Yes.
Carlos:Multi potentialite entrepreneur.
Emma:Yes.
Carlos:Mother new, uh, cult member of the Happy.
Carlos:Startup.
Carlos:School, you said?
Carlos:Well,
Emma:I didn't,
Carlos:but yeah, no.
Carlos:Having con she, we met in Alptitude.
Carlos:Uh, actually we met previously.
Carlos:Our kids used to play football together.
Carlos:Uh, and then serendipitously it came about that Alptitude was on Emma's radar.
Carlos:She joined us in, uh, this year in the Alps.
Carlos:Uh, and we got to know her well and learned more about her journey and the things that she's trying to do right now.
Carlos:So through getting to know our, understanding her story, we thought it'd be a really valuable conversation to have.
Carlos:Particularly for if you're a female entrepreneur, particularly if you're a female entrepreneur who's a mother, you are kind of balancing this idea of having career, having kids, and being a caring partner.
Carlos:Thinking that, well, wanting to have it all, but realizing it isn't so easy.
Carlos:What that means, just broadly.
Carlos:And we might have some conversations around what it means to be a female entrepreneur, what it means to be an entrepreneur, full stop.
Carlos:And we might talk, I'd like to talk a little bit about business and how you think about your business, and also think about, talk about a bit more about your own personal journey of business and what that meant in terms of how you've changed and grown, and also how you lead.
Carlos:But to kick off, what, uh, maybe just give us a description of what, how you describe what you do now, and maybe a little bit of how you got started.
Emma:So right now I have two active businesses.
Emma:One is Velvet, which is a store in Hove.
Emma:It's big stores, 3000 square foot.
Emma:It takes 16 people to run it.
Emma:It's, uh, busy and I love it.
Emma:I absolutely love it.
Emma:It's my deep passion.
Emma:And yes, 23 years old, so that's exciting.
Emma:So that takes up quite a lot of my time, but I have now a management team of four who do everything really.
Emma:They're amazing.
Emma:They've grown within the business, so they're running it.
Emma:I'm overseeing it now, so that's nice.
Emma:And from the proceeds and profits of that business, I've rebuilt my second time.
Emma:I've rebuilt my property business and I have a portfolio of properties which I manage and let out, and they're very nice properties and I'm a nice landlady.
Emma:I put customer service back into being a landlady.
Emma:I make sure my tenants are very happy.
Emma:So those are two things.
Emma:I do a little bit of investing as well, and sort of very easy stocks and shares and a few angel invest.
Emma:You know, I've invested in other companies doing angel investing, so I'm quite busy.
Emma:A single mom, three boys.
Emma:Do have a lovely boyfriend though, so I have to say that.
Emma:Yes, so they're, uh, getting on a bit now they're not young anymore, so 14, 17 and nearly 21, so they keep me busy.
Emma:I have always been entrepreneurial.
Emma:At uni for example, I probably one of the only people that left uni with quite a lot of money 'cause I used to put on fashion events for the fashion students and get sponsorship.
Emma:And I suddenly realized, oh well that's nice.
Emma:I'm earning good money here and having lots of fun.
Emma:So I've always been that way inclined.
Emma:My parents were, I'll have to be honest.
Emma:And then I went to work in marketing and PR in London in the city, thinking, oh, I'm never gonna have shops, I'm never gonna do retail.
Emma:My parents did.
Emma:And of course it happened.
Emma:I was in my blood and as soon as I was opened a shop in 2000, teeny weeny little shop in the lanes in Brighton, I knew within the first day, this is it.
Emma:This is what I do.
Emma:This is what I love.
Emma:I love people.
Emma:I love buying for women.
Emma:I just loved it.
Emma:And that was 23 years ago.
Emma:And I've just signed a lease for another 10 years on the building in Church Bay.
Emma:Wow.
Emma:So we go, we carry on.
Laurence:Can you remember the date when you set the first job?
Emma:20th of November.
Laurence:Okay.
Laurence:Wow.
Carlos:Wow.
Emma:And we were sold out by three days later.
Emma:We had a little queue down the street, Gardner Street, because if you remember the North Lanes in 2000 all you could buy was dream catchers, really shit and incense.
Emma:And having worked in London, the city, I didn't want, I didn't want that stuff.
Emma:I wanted nice stuff, you know, maybe a little bit glamorous stuff at, at really good prices.
Emma:So that was the idea behind the business, and still is.
Carlos:And so one of the things that we are curious about with this idea of starting a business is that how it Connects to we call, we talk about needs, you know, I think you'd like to think about passion and things that you love.
Carlos:And one of the reasons that we started the Happy Startup School is 'cause it was something we wanted for ourselves.
Carlos:Is there a similar kind of story in terms of the start of your business?
Carlos:Uh, you said retails in your blood, but there was something about loving the work, loving the customers, loving what they wanted to get?
Emma:Yeah.
Emma:Well, I feel like I just understand women, and I've always been fascinated by women or what they wear and how they present themselves.
Emma:Um, I can't walk down the street.
Emma:I.
Emma:Looking exactly what women are doing, what they're wearing.
Emma:It's an obsession.
Emma:Don't feel worried.
Emma:Friends.
Emma:I'm not judging.
Emma:I'm just nosy.
Emma:So I think that was the thing when I'd come to Brighton, I couldn't get the things I wanted.
Emma:And I was like, wow.
Emma:Even those days, even the supermarkets didn't sell gifts or handbags or anything that I might have wanted to buy.
Emma:I think it was Debenhams or Hanock, Pennington's, Harrington's, whatever it was called.
Emma:You couldn't, you just couldn't.
Emma:So I thought, there's a need here, there's a need for me.
Emma:And thank goodness an awful lot of people thought the same.
Emma:And men, because they came in the store and they still do.
Emma:We have loads of male customers who buy presents and gifts.
Emma:So, it was definitely from a want and a need.
Emma:And so
Laurence:you basically gave brighten a glow up, basically
Emma:Glow up, absolute glow up.
Emma:And I still try and do that.
Emma:Say,
Laurence:I think we're still work in progress.
Laurence:You got some work to do.
Carlos:I'm curious about you know, you are talking about clothing and women and just, you know, there's something about that is beyond just the looking pretty, is there something here about
Emma:Oh hundred percent.
Emma:Hundred percent.
Emma:I.
Emma:I always can see that we left our ethos is the best customer service we can possibly deliver.
Emma:And it's, we talk a lot about making women feel good about themselves.
Emma:There's a lot of pressure on women to feel a certain way, be a certain size, wear these skinny trousers, whatever.
Emma:Obviously we don't agree with that.
Emma:We want you to be comfortable and feel good about yourself.
Emma:So there is a hundred clothing and makeup can be an armor.
Emma:But we understand that, and I think that's an empowering thing.
Emma:So certainly on my darkest days, I will always have put on my best dress and my lipstick.
Emma:I mean, it doesn't mean anything to anyone, but it means something to me.
Emma:And I know women feel like that and we can help them.
Emma:We help them in store with, oh my God, my arss is big, or my tits big, this is how they talk to us.
Emma:We don't say it to them, obviously.
Emma:Or I've got to breastfeed or when I've had my dinner, I feel bloated.
Emma:So what can we, what clothes can we have, we've got to find to fit your figure?
Emma:And I think understanding women's self image is really important, and then it just might make their day go a little bit better.
Carlos:So this is, I'm not sure about Laurence, but definitely for me, this is an education, particularly when you use the word armor.
Emma:Yeah.
Carlos:What is it about the word armor.
Carlos:That's important here because it sounds like a very protective thing.
Emma:Oh, it's sometimes, you know, when life's going to shit or something and you can't cope at home or your things happening, I I mean, personally, it works for me and I know it works for a lot of customers that if you are presenting yourself to the world in a certain way, it just gives you that little bit of more bravery and like, this is me.
Emma:I'm good.
Emma:I'm in control.
Emma:You might not be, probably not inside, but this image helps.
Emma:It helps me anyway,
Carlos:which I think leads on actually straight to the meat and potatoes of this conversation is around this.
Carlos:I think what we discussing before when we had a call, Emma, about the perceptions and pressures that women have to maybe look a certain way, be a certain way, and how that can, I don't know, push people down a certain path or
Emma:Yeah.
Carlos:If they do go down a different path, feel judged or ashamed or just, pointed out, I don't know.
Carlos:Is there anything that Yeah.
Carlos:What is it about that you feel, because I think this is something, part of what you are really interested in terms of, empowering.
Emma:Yeah, so I think it's I think there's a lot of expectation of women, especially to be all singing and all dancing.
Emma:Be a great mom, run your own business, go down the gym, do all these things, look after your partner, care for them.
Emma:Family, friends, women often take this caring role, which I certainly have in my family too.
Emma:But there's no way, I don't believe about having it all.
Emma:I just don't think that's actually possible.
Emma:And still looking after yourself against something I've learned the hard way, because you can't.
Emma:I mean, I certainly couldn't parent three children and run the business and do everything, ta-da like this because it, that's not real.
Emma:It's just not real.
Emma:So the various things that have helped me sort of deal with it, this is firstly I have these balls that I call them.
Emma:So glass balls, plastic balls, can't drop the glass balls, they've gotta be picked up in school.
Emma:This has gotta happen.
Emma:This has gotta happen.
Emma:And certain things in the business have gotta happen.
Emma:And those, those plastic balls sometimes, well, life is not gonna end if this happens.
Emma:So I think there's ways of dealing with this and I think women are way too hard of themselves.
Emma:We really cannot do it all.
Emma:It's just not possible.
Emma:We do the best we can.
Emma:We show up for our family.
Emma:I think I always put the family up there.
Emma:And then the business, the close second, to be honest, no, boys first.
Emma:But I think the most important thing is that we don't beat ourselves up because, you know, especially social media, it's all bullshit, we know that.
Emma:And there's, everyone has their awful days, their shit days.
Emma:But we have good days too, and they're the days we think, okay, doing this, I'm doing this well.
Emma:And I think they're the ones to remember, and just do your best.
Emma:That has always got me through thinking, okay, I'm doing what I can and my kids are still alive.
Emma:They're at school.
Emma:They might have had a bit of a shit dinner last night, but you know, they're not gonna die from that.
Carlos:This maybe talks to a bit of the reason we use this title, and for those of you who are wondering, you know, what is that title about it?
Carlos:It, you Gotta, it is, the way you say It is like, boss, like a mother and mother like a boss.
Carlos:And the reason.
Carlos:I like this title because there's being a boss, like you've got your game face, Emma, and you told us about your game and you know how to just make shit happen.
Emma:Yeah.
Carlos:And you talk to me about your business and the people you work with, like as a family.
Emma:Yeah, they are.
Carlos:And wanting after them.
Carlos:And then there's this other aspect of like, and at home you need to also make sure shit gets done there.
Emma:Yeah, I do.
Carlos:You need able to hold everything together and so these two aspects to you and as a boss you gotta lead and you gotta look like you know what you're doing and shit can happen.
Carlos:And you talked about this idea of not hiding the struggle and this balance between being able to lead well so people know what's going on, but also sometimes things can get really hard and what do you do about that or how do you express that?
Carlos:So I dunno, talking a bit to that.
Carlos:Idea of vulnerability and how you turn, how you show that, and when you show that.
Emma:Well, I didn't for a very long time, Carlos.
Emma:I just didn't show vulnerability because I thought I would break, you know?
Emma:Getting divorced eight years ago was very stressful.
Emma:And I still had a business to run and I couldn't express myself.
Emma:I wasn't ready.
Emma:So, how I present myself at work is we have a nine o'clock meeting every morning, for example, and I always go into that meeting, happy, smiley, lipstick on, high vibes as we call it in the business.
Emma:And we have a plan for the day.
Emma:And it's a good feeling.
Emma:I would always show up like that.
Emma:I will never go to that meeting, you know, mood hoovering because the girls look to me to set the pace.
Emma:I feel that's really important.
Emma:But I have learned that I need to tell them when things aren't good or I need to listen to them when they're not good.
Emma:And we do, I would do that more on a one-to-one basis.
Emma:And I have found it really helpful that I, when, I've learned to listen way more.
Emma:So when I'm listening to one of my team who was struggling, for example, they might tell me about something and I will go at the end okay, I hear you.
Emma:And I understand.
Emma:Yes, I've suffered with depression.
Emma:Yes, I've suffered with burnout.
Emma:I've suffered with, you know, various things.
Emma:And they go oh okay.
Emma:And then they think, well, she does get it.
Emma:And I think that's when to show vulnerability.
Emma:I'm not gonna do it in leading the meetings and stuff.
Emma:I just, I know you're quite good at that, Carlos, and I just haven't got to that stage yet.
Emma:But that's how I run our team because my team are, uh, customer facing.
Emma:We call it retail theater in our store.
Emma:You don't wanna come and listen to our problems.
Emma:You wanna come and talk about the fashion of the dresses and we give your dog some treats or your, you know, look after your baby for a minute.
Emma:We're there to give you a lovely time.
Emma:So it's about raising the mood within the store and that's why I do it then.
Emma:And pick my moments.
Carlos:Yeah.
Carlos:So there's this real clear intention about what, for your customers providing an experience.
Emma:Yes.
Emma:Yeah.
Carlos:Very clear about what that experience is for your staff.
Carlos:Having clarity, but also like, well you said making sure that they feel heard.
Emma:Yeah.
Emma:Yeah.
Emma:They do feel, I hope, very much hope they feel heard.
Emma:And if they're not having a great day, we have processes with them business where they don't have to be on the shop floor.
Emma:So we do, we do less than a hundred percent.
Emma:It's very important to me that they all feel valued and loved and it's.
Emma:It's definitely a good place to work and that has taken a long time to build that culture.
Emma:A lot of love has gone into it and the customers know, they see it, they say it all the time.
Emma:Oh God.
Emma:So nice, so happy.
Emma:And its it's genuine.
Laurence:no, it's interesting what you say because I think for some people they might see that as, oh, you're, you know, you're not bringing everything to the table, you're not being fully authentic because you might be having a bad morning, for example.
Laurence:But they also wonder how much you end up.
Laurence:Helping yourself by stepping in.
Laurence:It's like an alter ego it feels like, for a little bit, just to try and,
Emma:Yeah.
Laurence:And I think for anyone who hosts anything, you have a role, right?
Laurence:To inspire others, to make other people feel welcome and safe.
Laurence:And like you said, they're coming there maybe to escape.
Laurence:They are the day to day and find a bit of joy in the day.
Emma:Exactly.
Emma:We call ourselves joy givers.
Emma:I know we're a commercial enterprise, but we do talk to our customers.
Emma:We know their dogs' names and their babies' names and when they're going on holiday, we know, well, my team know these things now to be fair.
Emma:And they've fantastic.
Emma:And they've got, they've made friends with the store.
Emma:This is important.
Emma:It's an experience.
Emma:So we have to, I think there's a time and place for sharing vulnerability in managing people.
Emma:And certainly the women are parents who work for me, they know that I know what that's whole set of new challenges is about.
Emma:And I, I like to think I support them through babyhood and what have you.
Laurence:Yeah.
Laurence:I also wonder whether there's something about helping others.
Laurence:Like I think my, so my parents used to run pubs and I used to work behind the bar, and there's days where you just don't wanna deal with people.
Emma:Yeah.
Laurence:But then just by talking to them and they talk about their lives, I kind of get out of you, get out of your own head by just being in a service kind of mindset.
Laurence:I'm guessing that must be true.
Emma:Yeah.
Emma:The service mindset is A whole different thing.
Emma:Laurence, you know, from pubs, you know, and also if people wanna talk to you, they wanna feel good, they want, they just want a nice interaction.
Emma:That's not the place I believe, to be too open.
Emma:And it does lift you, you have so, and they're like, oh my God, I love this and happy.
Carlos:There's something here if we go little in the businessy side of this conversation about being really clear about who you are for and what you're there for.
Emma:Yeah.
Carlos:And it sounds like you have real clarity
Emma:Yeah.
Carlos:About who you want, who your customer is and experience you wanna give them.
Emma:Yeah.
Emma:They all have names.
Emma:They're different ages, has different names.
Emma:So Linda is a certain age, this is what, how we reach Linda, how we look after Linda.
Emma:Karen's another age.
Emma:You know, they all have their names and we know exactly who they are and how we help them and how we get to them.
Emma:Being focused on customers is the marketing is very crucial.
Emma:And to these categories, we've always been customer focused and without them we're nothing are we?
Emma:We're nothing.
Emma:And that still gives me the buzz when and myself and Gemma, who does all the buying, we find a line or a product and we get excited about it.
Emma:And then I see my sales fingers coming up on my screen.
Emma:Oh my God, it's working.
Emma:Linda's loving it.
Emma:And that's it.
Emma:That's, it's still there.
Emma:Bless Linda.
Emma:I dunno, actually know who Linda is, but she's good.
Emma:Well,
Laurence:I'm curious do you know people buy the things they buy?
Laurence:Sorry, do you kind of
Emma:Yes.
Emma:I think you're like people coming past
Laurence:and be like, oh, you'd know him as Jen and Till rather than Tom.
Laurence:Yes.
Emma:They have their names in the categories.
Emma:Percent gem.
Emma:And I have a lot of fun making these up.
Carlos:I'm curious how this has evolved from when you started to now, because there is, you know, some kind of, you get business advice of like being able to create these avatars, these kind of archetypes, these people so you can, you know, have some kind of objective view of them if you're a team.
Carlos:But at the beginning, how was that for you?
Carlos:Because it sounded like pretty instinctive and then how did that evolve?
Carlos:Because like yeah, it can get quite structured if you let it.
Emma:Yeah, no, it's gut instinct.
Emma:I absolutely follow my gut on women.
Emma:Um, I'm obsessed with fashion and interiors anyway, which helps and women obsessed with women.
Emma:That sounds a bit strange.
Emma:I love women.
Emma:I love women.
Emma:Yes, it was gut at the beginning, a little bit more scientific now 'cause it's a bigger business and you know, sales figures and analysis and profits and all that sort of thing.
Emma:But it's still gut and that's how my team worked.
Emma:They feedback all the information, what people talk to them.
Emma:Same with Gemma.
Emma:She's obsessed with it.
Emma:It's a passion, it's a fun passion, you know, it's not, as I said to you, you know, we try lots of things.
Emma:If it don't work, it's not a and e, it's just some products that don't sell.
Emma:You know, we love to try things and test things and that's something that we all really enjoy as well, which is nice.
Emma:So it has evolved, but it's still a lot of gut and understanding women.
Carlos:And how, because it, there's this aspect, it sounds like, proven by your own tastes and your own vision of what women want.
Carlos:And then there's having a team around you to like support that.
Carlos:And the question I have around this is around how that culture for want of a bad term, how that feel has developed over time.
Carlos:That influenced you in terms of who you want, people who, which kind of people you wanna work with?
Carlos:Oh yeah.
Carlos:Is that something, again, is that all gut driven for you or is that formalized a way?
Emma:Yeah, I have to say it's chipping away.
Emma:Uh, and I talked about that you can't build a magical business in a, in six months.
Emma:It's a long process of learning.
Emma:When I first started to manage people, I was probably really shit because I've got a high work ethic and I've got a lot of energy and I didn't understand people that didn't work at the same pace as me.
Emma:But of course that's not realistic.
Emma:So I've learned, learn how to manage people hundred percent and that's grown.
Emma:Investing in the team and listening to them.
Emma:I think, one point there you said you buy for your taste.
Emma:Absolutely.
Emma:That's the wrong thing to do.
Emma:You buy what your customer wants a hundred percent.
Emma:So, that's the thing I learned as well, Carlos.
Emma:So yeah, growing the team managing them has completely changed over the 23 years.
Emma:I'm much more empathetic now.
Emma:I do expect, you know, a level of commitment and hard work, but I think when you invest in your team and care about them, they give it you, they give it you anyway.
Emma:Uh, hundred percent.
Emma:Finding the right personalities.
Emma:I don't care what experience you've got.
Emma:I don't care if you've got any exams.
Emma:You need to be a people person.
Emma:You need to look me in the eye and smile and laugh and care about people.
Emma:You need to be that out outgoing personality.
Emma:We can, we train people very well in, in store, but it's that people person.
Emma:We know.
Emma:I mean, I'm lucky to, I don't do the interviews anymore because no, the girls do it now and they're fantastic.
Emma:They just spot the eyes, light up presence.
Emma:That's what we're looking for.
Emma:You need to make people feel special, but do it genuinely.
Carlos:So there's something here about the importance of people.
Emma:Yeah.
Carlos:And I'm wondering how that, and I might come back a little bit to that because what that's got onto me, got me onto is this idea of, or points in your business journey where there has been a big shift.
Carlos:Like it tilts upwards.
Carlos:It's like, oh wow.
Carlos:Not necessarily rocketship growth, but you know, there's a sudden step change.
Carlos:And are you able to talk to what those changes were and what you did differently?
Carlos:How you were different or what happened in the business?
Emma:Well, there's been some huge changes.
Emma:Recession that was fun.
Emma:Lost quite a lot there.
Emma:Had to make a lot of people redundant.
Emma:Had about 35 staff then, because I've grown the business quite sincerely.
Emma:That was horrific.
Emma:And I've learned a lot of financial lessons from them, and that was heartbreaking, making certain people redundant.
Emma:Incidentally I found one of them about four years ago and said, do you fancy coming back?
Emma:And she went, yes.
Emma:So, um, events like that, obviously Covid.
Emma:I think the biggest impact on the business was getting divorced.
Emma:That was the key game changer from making the business a good okay business to a very profitable, successful business because, after I collapsed, literally, I realized then the Y was bigger than ever before.
Emma:It was, oh, it was horrendous.
Emma:But I knew I wanted to provide for the boys.
Emma:I wanted to be that person for them that, you know, if we needed things, I could do it.
Emma:It was just financial security.
Emma:My house was at risk.
Emma:I was like, no, I haven't worked this hard for this.
Emma:So that was the pivot.
Emma:That was about, uh, seven years ago.
Emma:And that's the biggest impact.
Emma:Then I changed everything from the ground up about the business to make it better, leaner,, way more successful, have more people come in, and thank goodness my team were with me.
Emma:And most of them from that meter still with me.
Emma:You know, my management team, they've been here a long time.
Emma:Gem is 16 years.
Emma:Ella, I think eight, nine, you know, they've been there, they've been there through the lows and they've been there through the highs, which was last year, best year ever.
Emma:So, yeah, these things make you, you know, when it's really shit, when it's good, you don't half cherish it.
Emma:And those are the things that are quite moving to me now.
Emma:I do stop and go.
Emma:A lovely feeling.
Carlos:Yeah.
Carlos:Well, what I heard there was at that point, some supreme focus is like, this is what I've got to focus on.
Carlos:I can't get distracted because I need to provide financial security.
Carlos:I need to look after the boys, and that's gonna be done by growing this business.
Emma:Yeah.
Carlos:And so I assume then that helped you just filter out all the stuff that may have been distracting you before.
Emma:Yes, definitely it gave me a kick up the arse, I'd say.
Emma:I was sort of coasting at that point.
Emma:But it was really lovely to find the fire in my belly, which I knew I'd had previously and sort of got lost maybe in motherhood, maybe in marriage, maybe.
Emma:But it had gone and that just, it just lit it, and that's still there and it's a lovely feeling.
Emma:But with that, I found this amazing focus, laser focus.
Emma:Uh, not every day.
Emma:There's like, you know, let's sharing the struggle.
Emma:There was some bad days, there was a lot of bad days, too much chocolate, wine, you know, whatever they were there those days with, I don't want people to get the wrong impression because there was some horrific days, but the good days overlapped way more in the end and.
Emma:And the joy of something working.
Emma:It's really powerful.
Emma:And then, you know, my team all came behind.
Emma:It was like, right, we're gonna do this.
Emma:It was just such a beautiful experience.
Carlos:what I'm hearing was this initial spoke, uh, beginning kind of, there's the fire, then it worked and it was working and then.
Emma:Yeah.
Carlos:What I heard there was just like the fire got lost for a bit.
Emma:Yeah, it did.
Carlos:And then got refound during this like quite painful time in your life and just,
Emma:Yeah,
Carlos:I don't know.
Carlos:Is there anything around that dip in energy, the losing of that passion that you can talk to?
Carlos:'cause it seems like something that can happen and you, motherhood.
Carlos:That can affect and, and I'm just wondering from a woman's perspective as well.
Emma:Yeah.
Carlos:Just curious about that.
Emma:Yeah, no, of course.
Emma:I think I became a little bit of a slave, little bit of a martyr.
Emma:I think women do that sometimes.
Emma:Oh, I've gotta do this, I've gotta do the dishwasher and I've gotta do washing them.
Emma:And I think I got a little bit lost in motherhood.
Emma:I lost a bit my identity, and I'm sure a lot of women would experience that too.
Emma:Two bouts of post depression, which came outta nowhere and were horrific.
Emma:So they just knock you a little bit.
Emma:And I think I just lost my my mom called it out actually.
Emma:She said, you lost Emma Spark.
Emma:And I did lose it.
Emma:And you think, oh gosh, but rekindling it.
Emma:I'm like, oh, I could take on the wall.
Emma:I can, I could do it.
Emma:I survived.
Emma:I survived.
Emma:And that's, I think we feel like as women sometimes we have to be everything to everybody.
Emma:And it's not possible.
Emma:It's not possible.
Emma:That's why I've said that the whole mother guilt thing is real crippler.
Emma:I certainly that with my first son and I'm forever banging onto any new mothers or mothers with young children who I was one of them who fretted about a lot of stuff.
Emma:And because it's out of our control,
Emma:I have to say my eldest son is nearly 21, cannot remember anything because that's what I used to worry about.
Emma:Not a single thing.
Emma:He remembers holidays, he remembers his mum loves him, still loves him ,unconditional love, and she was pretty much always there at the school the end of the day, and that's what he remembers.
Emma:Didn't have a big maternity leave or he went to nursery.
Emma:He doesn't remember any of those things.
Emma:And I think once I'd got over this whole mother guilt thing, I realized that I'm a much better mom.
Emma:If I'm working, I'd be a terrible stay at home mom.
Emma:I mean, God, I'd be depressed all the time because I need my, I need things.
Emma:For me, once I realized that I can go to work and the joy of being an entrepreneur is having your own business is you can call the shots.
Emma:You can say Sports day, saan certain things, plays, I'm going to, don't care what happens.
Emma:That sport's happening.
Emma:Always first.
Emma:Always has been, yeah, I've had to work really through the night sometimes and you know, get up at 5:00 AM and do shit, but that's how I've got through it.
Emma:And then the guilt slowly transpired, especially when they're older and they're like, oh yeah, quite proud of you, mom.
Emma:Yeah.
Emma:Good work mom and that.
Emma:I only had to look at my mother who worked six days a week forever.
Emma:I mean, no such thing as maternity leave.
Emma:And all I ever thought that she was incredible and we couldn't be closer now and 81 still my bookkeeper.
Emma:So I don't feel there's any lack of bond there because I knew when I needed her, she'd be there.
Emma:So the mother guilt, I've just urged people to park it as much as possible.
Carlos:Thank you.
Carlos:I think it kind of touches on the question that I just wanted to go a little bit into the questions now.
Carlos:'cause Claire had been asking how you manage the juggle between family pressures and work priorities.
Carlos:And so why I heard part of it was, you know, the guilt, uh, and you talked about the balls, the glass balls and the plastic balls.
Emma:Yeah.
Emma:Yeah.
Emma:I don't think anyone gets it right.
Emma:I think that's why we have to say that.
Emma:I think there's no rhyme.
Emma:I mean, I've made enormous amount of mistakes I feel with my children, but I think just showing up and doing your very best is, that's how I sort of see it.
Emma:I see.
Emma:Luckily, I don't feel like my job is a job.
Emma:I feel like it's just part of my life.
Emma:It doesn't go away.
Emma:And because I love it I don't mind, but I think, I know I have to suddenly, it's quite hard.
Emma:I always do it.
Emma:It's just park it and then be a hundred percent present when the kids need to talk to me about stuff or as their teenagers ignore me.
Emma:But if they don't wanna ignore me, then I'm there.
Emma:So, uh, it's not easy.
Emma:Claire.
Emma:I would say that I've learned a lot of way.
Emma:I have to be super organized.
Emma:I have to be super organized.
Emma:And that is a skill that why I like employing mothers as well, because you can run a family, you can be a, you know, have great work ethic.
Emma:Being a single mom really threw me.
Emma:But once I got to grips with it, I was like, wow, if I can do this, you know, I can do anything.
Emma:I remember meeting this fellow and he said his wife couldn't focus on a business till everything was perfect in the home and the kids were done and all the jobs were done.
Emma:And I would say, well, the only piece of advice I can go is just drop the things that really don't need to happen, especially when they're young.
Emma:It's so chaotic.
Emma:I think also if the focusing laser focus on school hours, that's what, six hours is it at school?
Emma:Amazing.
Emma:What you can do in six hours and then drop those balls that don't really need doing, you know?
Emma:I think that's a really key take, takeaway.
Emma:And then you get older and you get a bit more time.
Laurence:One thing I'm hearing though, I think might tied to Claire's question is this idea of like, what's the cost of not pursuing the work that matters to you in terms of your own identity and energy and wellbeing?
Laurence:Because I think a lot of women particularly can feel like it's an indulgent thing to work, which is ridiculous, isn't it?
Laurence:That you're providing and you are tapping into your needs and your own purpose in life, not just ignoring your children.
Emma:First of all, we're here.
Emma:We're not here just to serve our families and serve our children.
Emma:I don't believe that.
Emma:I think it's really important that we remember who we are as people, because I don't want to be miserable and depressed when I'm home because I'm not doing my passion.
Emma:I come home if I've had a great day at work, I've come home like, wow, yeah, this is great.
Emma:Not always, but I think that is crucial.
Emma:And also as I talk to Carlos, they're leaving home, you know, in my world, uh, empty nesting, and they're very conscious that mom's busy and okay.
Emma:They know.
Emma:I mean, my oldest son, I miss him awfully, but he, you know, he's busy and he's just like, yeah, it's fine.
Emma:Mom's got her lives, you know, and that's important for them as well, and very important for us because we shouldn't have to sacrifice our dreams and passions because we're a mom.
Emma:My mom didn't, and she's amazing and I think it just gives you joy, hopefully.
Carlos:I wanted to touch on this question from Magda and then I wanted to go into kind of this new stage or this current stage you're at with work and life.
Carlos:So firstly, uh, Magda was asking, let's see if you can answer this one.
Carlos:What are your core values and how did they change throughout your life, if at all?
Emma:Okay.
Emma:I think core values has to be kindness and empathy and understanding people.
Emma:To be fair, that has developed, I feel I've always been a compassionate person, but I think I've become less selfish and more understanding that very differently.
Emma:So I think empathy and kindness is something I hold huge attachments to.
Emma:How do you define Happiness?
Emma:Oh, happiness.
Emma:Okay.
Emma:Happiness, I have to say, being a mother, four, three boys in a good place, that really helps.
Emma:I think being with, having security, I won't lie, after nearly losing everything is important to me.
Emma:That makes me feel fairly happy.
Emma:But family, friends, enjoying what I do, my children, they're the things that made me happy.
Emma:My relationship, uh, being outside, that's the Happiness.
Emma:If, if everything's taken away at the end of the day, family in my house that's all that matters to all of us, I believe.
Emma:And I'm happy.
Emma:Thank you.
Emma:Megda.
Laurence:I'm curious.
Laurence:Has it taken your kids to sort of reflect back to you what you've achieved in terms of just being, giving yourself credit for what you've achieved?
Emma:Yeah.
Emma:I think now they're older.
Emma:They've sort of dawned on them that mom's done.
Emma:Okay.
Emma:And only yesterday, Carlos, I played the little clip that you did.
Emma:They're going through difficult times and bouncing back.
Emma:And I played it to my son who's 17 and he went, whoa, I'm seeing you differently now, mom.
Emma:That's so cool.
Emma:You're like, these people listen to on Instagram,
Laurence:You're an influencer.
Emma:Thank you.
Emma:Yeah, I think that's the key.
Emma:Takeaway that they are proud of me.
Emma:Obviously I drive them mad of their mother, but I hear them talk about me to their friends sometimes, and it's really nice feedback that they're actually proud of me now.
Emma:Aw.
Emma:Makes me very happy.
Emma:Emotional.
Emma:You should say you
Laurence:haven't seen, you haven't seen anything yet way till your TikTok channel.
Emma:That's way too technical.
Carlos:One of the things that I heard when we talked previously before coming to Alptitude, you had an experience of Covid that kind of taught you something and has given you a shift in perspective.
Carlos:And I just wanted you to maybe just share a bit about that.
Carlos:And also how that relates to business as well in terms of.
Carlos:What you needed to do and what you can do now.
Emma:Yeah.
Carlos:And what that means in terms of what possibilities are open for you right now and the questions that come up.
Emma:Okay.
Emma:So I've always been sporty, always been very fit.
Emma:I've run a lot of marathons and ultra marathons, and that's my passion.
Emma:Probably about 30 marathons.
Emma:Then I got covid and think, oh, I'm pretty fit, this is gonna be fine.
Emma:It was okay.
Emma:And then literally, I just could barely walk down the road and I had major problems breathing heart problems.
Emma:For six months I was seriously on.
Emma:I mean, I was able to work for about two hours a day, and then I had to lie down and literally in order to make the kids dinner.
Emma:It took everything away.
Emma:For a whole year, I was half my, half a person.
Emma:That was tough because you wouldn't have known that for my Instagram because I was still trying to work on the business.
Emma:It just.
Emma:It was a pretty, it was last year.
Emma:It was pretty horrendous.
Emma:I'm on my way back now.
Emma:I've got my energy back, but gosh, what a fright to your health.
Emma:But I've had the all clear on my heart, which is the main thing.
Emma:And I'm starting to run again slowly, but, you know, it's happening.
Emma:But things, it taught me, I was able to sit very quietly.
Emma:So I learned about how the business really worked and I was able to focus on that.
Emma:So something was giving me joy, that was.
Emma:My team stepped up beyond belief and I thought they're capable of so much more than they think now.
Emma:So I restructured all their jobs, basically and rewarded them for it, and now they're literally running the business.
Emma:So maybe if that hadn't happened, it might not have happened so quickly, but it would've happened.
Emma:And then the priority, what it made me realize is your health is everything.
Emma:Your family and your health got everything.
Emma:Because I knew I was gonna get better at some point, but I didn't know the effects it might have had on my heart, my lungs.
Emma:I think once you realize that without your house you're nothing, you, your gratitude literally blows up.
Emma:And obviously there's some people have horrendous things.
Emma:They know they're not gonna get better.
Emma:So I did have that at the end of the tunnel.
Emma:But I have been physically changed dramatically in those, these two years.
Emma:And I think I have, on that subject, for example, my, one of my children, we had a life threatening thing happened to him.
Emma:And that is my point.
Emma:These things are so awful that when you are dealing with day to day life in your business, that they're dealable, they're okay.
Emma:The worst has happened.
Emma:Hopefully the worst has happened.
Emma:And that is the key to, I think, inner strength is you can get through.
Emma:Hopefully come out the other end in a much more positive and better way.
Emma:So, yeah.
Emma:And long covid is shit.
Emma:It's really shit.
Emma:And it's really real.
Emma:And people think you're just tired, but you're not.
Emma:It's a full body, horrendous experience.
Emma:But yeah, I'm coming back.
Carlos:So now you've um, you know, you've got the team basically running the business.
Carlos:Your health is on the way up.
Carlos:What does that now mean for you in terms of your purpose as, and what you want, what's pulling you forward?
Emma:The problem is, Carlos, I want to do a million things.
Emma:This has always been my problem.
Emma:I have a ideas, and I am trying to focus with a coach I've met through the happy Startup company coach to work out what my actual priorities are.
Emma:Velvet is my number one passion and she always will be.
Emma:She's human as well, by the way.
Emma:So I'm really investing in the team and I'm also gone back to uni to do a business force on how to grow businesses properly rather than maybe a bit of both organically.
Emma:Property's fantastic that's running along at the moment, but I can't do any more with that at the moment because the hideous interest rates.
Emma:I am keen to go on this new journey with myself and to share some of hopefully things I've learned, the good and the bad and the ugly.
Emma:I hope to inspire a few people that we can do it, especially as women moms, we can do this shit.
Emma:I want to learn definitely a bit more about myself and what my dream passions are.
Emma:So I'm doing a little bit of trying everything and going to Alptitude was literally put the lights on.
Emma:So thank you guys.
Emma:Same with Summercamp.
Emma:So I'm really loving the whole community, super fan here.
Emma:But I think that's really, you know, really helped in talking to people and listening to people because I said to you, I was head down in my business for so long, just surviving that this opening up and talking to other entrepreneurs in all different fields is amazing.
Emma:So there's like a five page list of things that I wanna do.
Emma:And a lovely friend I met through here, Andrea said to me, what is it do this decade with intention?
Emma:And I'm like, that's it, that's what I'm gonna do.
Laurence:It feels to me, you know, your audience, I'm guessing given your love of women.
Laurence:Unless you're gonna pivot to men all of a sudden and surprise us.
Emma:Well, actually one of my suppliers has offered me opportunity to open some med shops and I'm thinking Hmm, no,
Emma:we spend a lot more time shopping.
Carlos:So you got a five page list of things that you could do.
Carlos:So Sounds a lot of possibility.
Carlos:And we meet a lot of people at this stage whether we call it the midlife reset, but it doesn't necessarily, isn't necessarily a number, it's, it is a state of mind where actually I just, there's a new set of possibilities that are open to me, but which ones to choose?
Carlos:I'd be curious, and I know you are still on the journey, still trying to work it out.
Emma:Yeah.
Carlos:What's helping you right now?
Carlos:What do you know, know you're working with Sally Ann and she's coaching you.
Emma:Yeah.
Carlos:Which is great.
Carlos:For you, how are you starting to kind of create some focus or create some filters for now?
Carlos:You know, I'm sure this is a work in progress.
Emma:This is, I have to be honest with you Carlos, this is a massive work in progress and I've really just sort of launching myself into it right now.
Emma:And I think I'm gonna have to drop some in order to be able to focus on looking at the bigger picture of Emma, and I think, I've been discussing it.
Emma:Poor boyfriend, he hears a lot of this.
Emma:And he's very helpful actually.
Emma:But it's trying to think, my problem is I just wanna do everything, but that's obviously not possible.
Emma:So.
Emma:Working again with Sally Ann.
Emma:What gives me deep joy, deep satisfaction.
Emma:It's work in progress.
Emma:Carlos, I'll tell you, I'll tell you in a year.
Carlos:And for as someone who, as I experience, you can be a hundred miles an hour, that requires slowing down.
Emma:Yes.
Carlos:How is that as an experience for you now?
Carlos:And I know Covid probably
Emma:Yeah.
Carlos:Talked viscerally, what that was.
Emma:Yeah.
Emma:Well maybe that's why I got it.
Emma:You know, I sort of think some things often happen for a reason.
Emma:It just stopped me.
Emma:It didn't slow me down.
Emma:It actually stopped me, which gave me a lot of time to think.
Emma:So that this is the difficult thing.
Emma:Now the energy's back.
Emma:I've gotta make sure I don't go bananas again.
Emma:So I'm very conscious of looking after myself.
Emma:Like every day I do something that's on my head.
Emma:So, I've suddenly become a yoga fan in the last year.
Emma:I'm doing sort all these sort of things.
Emma:These things are very important to me, that my health comes first.
Emma:And then I can have outside space.
Emma:But I am still a work in progress a hundred percent about being kinder to myself and relaxing.
Emma:That's a work in progress, I won't lie.
Carlos:And so the, uh, last question then for me.
Carlos:Is there anything you could tell yourself from seven or even 10 years ago that would have maybe shifted or brought them to this place where you are now quicker?
Emma:Well, we all know that life lessons, what teaches you everything and messing up failure is sometimes doesn’t seem it but it is a gift, because you learn.
Emma:I wish I could have told myself to chill the fuck out a bit.
Emma:I wish I could have said that.
Emma:And I wish I could said, be really grateful for what you've got and it's all gonna be fine.
Emma:But, you know, but you can't do that.
Emma:I, I think maybe look up and smell the roses, I think would be something.
Emma:I think I told you I do, last five years, I've done a gratitude journal, which I always thought sounded well cheesy.
Emma:It works.
Emma:It's amazing.
Emma:It's so amazing.
Emma:Every morning I'm like, oh, this hurts, or that hurts, or, oh, that's annoying.
Emma:I've gotta deal with that.
Emma:I write down the amazing things in my life and then I'm like, okay, I'm good.
Emma:I'm not in a war torn country.
Emma:I've got a roof over my head.
Emma:I think that is a game changer, little tip there if anyone does it.
Emma:And you can write down shit stuff.
Emma:Get it off your chest.
Emma:So that's another
Carlos:Eerything will be okay.
Laurence:I'm looking forward to the 20.
Laurence:Where are we?
Laurence:2033 edition of Emma, like fully woo wooed.
Emma:Oh God.
Laurence:Yeah.
Laurence:Spiritual teacher in touch with your feelings.
Emma:Well, I dunno about that.
Emma:Laurence, let's face it.
Carlos:I've got more Devil Wears Prada vibes going on now and just thinking like, I have just conquered the whole of the UK fashion market and I can chill the fuck out when I want.
Emma:Yeah.
Emma:Chill the fuck out.
Emma:That's what I'm gonna say.
Emma:And um, have a good dance later.
Laurence:Yeah.
Carlos:Well, we had a quick question from Gareth here.
Carlos:In 2023, will you have another five page list or 2033?
Carlos:Will you have another five page list of things to do?
Emma:I know this Gareth, this is the partner, this is a boyfriend.
Emma:Uh, he should know me well enough to know that.
Laurence:He's trolling you.
Emma:Yeah, he's trolling me.
Emma:He knows about the list.
Carlos:Well, maybe the work is, there is no list and it just happens however it happens.
Emma:But that's a step too far, you know, take away from me that that would break.
Laurence:It's like, that's another one of Carlos' t-shirts.
Laurence:There is no list.
Laurence:The list is the list..
Emma:Oh.
Carlos:Yeah.
Carlos:Well, that's my own journey to be honest.
Carlos:So, yeah.
Laurence:Yeah.
Carlos:I'll see you on the other side, Emma.
Carlos:We'll see if we can get there.
Emma:Thank you, guys.
Emma:I've loved it.
Emma:I've loved it.
Carlos:Cool.
Carlos:If people wanna get to know you, learn more about you, talk to you, have a coffee with you, if they're based in Brighton, where would you like to point?
Carlos:What's the best place to get you?
Emma:My Instagram page, I'm pretty active on there or LinkedIn, but I think it probably Instagram.
Emma:I have my own Instagram as well as a shot one.
Emma:So, velvet Hove and Emma Velvet Hove.
Emma:Very happy.
Carlos:Emma Velvet Hove and Emma Velvet Hove on Instagram.
Carlos:So if you wanna hear more from Emma, experience her energy more and even reach out to talk to her, get onto Instagram and yeah, follow her there.
Carlos:Laurence, is there anything you'd like to say before we end?
Laurence:Oh, that you're inspiring.
Laurence:Yeah, just like, lovely, seeing all the comments from, well, I think partic, I mean like me and Carlos are I guess shooting blind with some of this in terms of women's role in business and at home because we, you know, we've only got our own experience of our partners and.
Emma:Yeah.
Laurence:We can't know what it's like.
Laurence:So to hear you talk about it so honestly, and to see so much connection with people on the call, I've learned a lot, put it that way.
Laurence:In terms of that feeling of just being kind to yourself, it sounds like, just trying not to beat yourself up.
Laurence:'cause we come across this a lot with people in the community and we get a lot of women is that feeling of, yeah, I'm not enough and I'm never enough and there's never enough time to do everything and keep everyone happy and you come last.
Emma:Oh, there Yeah.
Emma:But there isn't, I think small wins, Laurence, I'd always take that.
Emma:What more wins of day?
Emma:We've, we always have, we all have wins every day.
Laurence:Yeah.
Carlos:I appreciate your energy and I also appreciate how, while you have done so much in your professional life, you're now exploring and embracing something completely different.
Carlos:Uh, you've shown, and you shared with us how uncomfortable some of this kind of new way of being and looking was at Alptitude.
Emma:Yeah.
Laurence:I remember the hands, The hands do, the hands.
Emma:That's when I've been trying to be vulnerable.
Emma:I'm like, Jesus, this is outta my comfort zone
Carlos:But we're also incredibly grateful for, for your trust in us, uh, and what we do.
Carlos:It's one of the not enough stories like this, I think, appear in our community and we'd love to be able to hear more about what it's like.
Carlos:Uh, because it isn't just, I think a story for female entrepreneurs.
Carlos:I think it's for anyone who feels like they need to get everything right at the same time.
Emma:Yeah.
Carlos:And how we need to give ourselves a bit of a break.
Carlos:Uh, and I think if you are an A type ambitious person
Emma:Yeah.
Carlos:That could get in your way.
Emma:Yeah.
Emma:Hundred percent.
Laurence:And everyone needs that Emma spark, you talked about that.
Laurence:Rediscovering your spark feels like maybe that's the name of your program stroke.
Laurence:Instagram.
Emma:Emma spark.
Laurence:Emma spark.
Laurence:We all need a bit of that.
Emma:Thank you guys.
Emma:I've loved it.
Emma:And thank you for all the stuff I've learned from you both this year.
