Episode 140
When it's time pause on purpose
John Pritchard was the founder of Pala, a brand driven by purpose. The mission was to produce high quality, long-lasting eyewear whilst making a commitment to minimise the impact on the planet and maximise positive social impact on people.
Longevity of product was important to minimise resource usage, but that makes for a very different approach to business.
The Pala strapline was “see the world better”, which enabled him to go into numerous directions around how to help others “see the world better”.
However, after 9 years, the mission took its toll and earlier this year John had to make the decision to close down the business.
He now needs to take a pause, but feels conflicted about that.
His sense of purpose was strong but he also needed to pause to look after himself.
He feels the tension between doing stuff and not doing stuff with conflicting stories about being of service to others but also needing to look after himself.
Now that the business is winding down he’s a lot less busy and t’s something that’s going to take some getting used to. Some internal rewiring is needing to happen.
John is now entering a time of transition where he’s pondering how to change the world while also changing his world.
In this episode, Carlos and Laurence learn about what it took to start, grow and run Pala and the lessons he’s learned about purposeful business and about himself.
You’ll learn about the questions he’s now having to ask himself about how to fit purpose into his future work alongside making a commitment to his own wellbeing.
Links
Transcript
I was curious to invite, John, to tell his story of, of the business he's running, his work, how it started, how it's gone, to, well hopefully give him a space to just reflect, you know, uh, I think it's always helpful when we can, uh, weave some meaning into the madness that has been our businesses.
Carlos:Uh, but also I'm hoping with that maybe for those of you listening and watching, will find something helpful for you, or at least at one level, feeling like you're not on your own when you're trying to do this kind of work.
Carlos:So to kick off, um, John, why don't you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about the, the business Pala, um, and a little bit of how it started, you know, what was before Pala and how did that transition into Pala happen?
John:Yeah, so I just wind the clock back a little bit.
John:I, before Pala, I worked at Microsoft, um, in the uk and my role there was, uh, a creative strategist, which probably means nothing to, to, to many people.
John:Um, but basically it was sort of getting paid the dream, uh, a daydream a little bit, um, for sort of branding and marketing ideas for clients of Microsoft.
John:And this would be advertising and it would be across Microsoft platforms.
John:So it became as far back as MSM, uh, Skype and all those kind of things that we probably don't use anymore, uh, but more, you know, there's Xbox and, and I think Windows phone at the time and, and various, you know, platforms that they bought there.
John:And it was a, it was a very comfortable role.
John:Um, I was getting paid a good amount of money for say, for thinking a lot.
John:And, uh, there's no such thing as a bad idea.
John:So even if the idea wasn't good, you, you know, in, in terms of qualifying it, uh.
John:Um, I didn't always have to qualify if, if somebody didn't go with an idea, it wasn't, it wasn't the end of the world and it was too comfortable.
John:And I think, um, for me, I just sort of started to look at the dynamics of what I was doing.
John:And if you broke it down at its rawest level, I was just taking money from one big corporate and giving it to another big corporate and just swilling that money around a, you know, sort of profitable economy.
John:And, and it didn't sit right for me, um, at least at that stage in my life.
John:uh, I was there for about eight or nine years and then it got to a point at which I just knew I had to put some actual purpose into my work.
John:I wanted to have a more direct impact.
John:I was quite privileged to be in that position at Microsoft.
John:Um.
John:And I felt that there was an opportunity there for me to actually go out and do something for myself.
John:And, uh, there was a chance to take, uh, voluntary redundancy, which I took and I used that, uh, to sort of kickstart my next phase.
John:Um, and that was around 2016.
John:So Parley launched in 2016, but as an idea, I mean, I registered the company back in 2011.
John:So it had been festering as a concept.
John:and I guess I was sort of, as most sort of business startups go, you kind of just sort of side by side for some time until you feel there's the right opportunity.
John:As I say that, that opportunity to take redundancy felt like that opportunity.
John:And so, yeah, I launched, uh, Pala in 2016, but obviously had to do a lot of pre-work before that because, um, in terms of how Pala came about.
John:It wasn't like I was coming from a fashion industry, uh, far less the eyewear industry.
John:Um, I've been traveling fortunate to be tra uh, able to travel in, in Africa in some of my, uh, earlier travels and, uh, and, and had a real affinity for the places I've been to the people I've met.
John:Um, the cultural experience, but learned about the, the complete lack of access to eyecare, um, sort of simultaneously.
John:And I felt that there is, is such a, you know, a pair of glasses is recognized as one of the most cost effective poverty alleviating tools you can give someone.
John:And yet in parts of Africa, you just, in some countries you just can't access that.
John:Um, there's a project we, uh, we are currently funding in Sierra Leone.
John:and, uh, Sierra Leone is a country of just under 8 million and it has just five optometrists for 8 million people.
John:That gives you, you know, in an acute way the, the problem at hand.
John:And I just felt that there was, there was something that we could get behind and, and try and, uh, form a way of communicating that.
John:And, um, so I had no, uh, background in, in iCare.
John:So actually my first meeting was with Vision Action, a charity based up in Gatwick.
John:And I said, well let you guys work in Ghana, Ethiopia, Zambia, um, um, if you can help me facilitate change on the ground, um, I'll go away and think of a company to, to leverage that, to change and, and, and bring, bring funding through.
John:And that's when I thought, well, look, let's keep this simple for people not realizing how complicated it would be for me.
John:Uh, let's create an eyewear brand, which will mean if we sell sunglasses, eyeglasses then, and then we can deliver, um, change through supporting vision centers and building vision centers in parts of, um, Africa.
John:And so that's where it really started.
John:It didn't come from a, I've got a great product or a brand idea here.
John:I've actually got a cause and then I retrofitted a, a business around that.
Carlos:so one thing that springs to mind around just the, the focus that you had, pardon the pun, but um, you mentioned some there about, lack of, vision support is one of the leverage points around, um, alleviating poverty.
Carlos:Is that what you said something there?
Carlos:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Carlos:And so there's, there's something, what I'm hearing is something quite strategic around the purpose around this.
Carlos:Like, actually we solve this specific problem.
Carlos:It can have quite.
Carlos:Amplified effects in terms of, uh, helping others?
Carlos:A
John:hundred percent.
John:So, uh, I, I, you know, again, I've been to, um, watch some of our work in Ethiopia and I've been to Zambia as well, to, to see the, the work out there and whether you are giving a per spectacles or corrective surgery to a child, uh, it means at school they can read the blackboard, they can read books, but equally for an adult, the same, same thing.
John:They can read a book.
John:But, um, in Ethiopia, which is quite a, a high sort of cotton sewing based industry, if you can't sort of thread a needle 'cause you can't see the hole and put the, put the thread through, then again, you've, you can't, you know, it's an obstruction to working.
John:So yeah, a pair of glasses is, is, is a, is a huge tool to benefit.
John:And it's, it's, it's the Zambia project, for example, we, we funded a, um, refurbishment and a, the equipping of a vision center in 2017.
John:And, um.
John:Since then, there's 28,000 people have passed through that vision center.
John:So, um, maybe it's something we go onto in a bit, but one of the things of closing a business is it's not just gone and disappeared forever.
John:Um, there's a legacy there of, of 28,000 people who will benefit from the gift or of better vision and, and the economic advantages is that will give them going forward.
Carlos:I get the impression sometimes when we think about doing purposeful work, changing the world for the better.
Carlos:It can be quite big stuff that needs to, lots of things, quite a complex array of things that need to happen, uh, and being able to have some level of focus fi finding a leverage point.
Carlos:Finding a story that if I do this bit and do my work here, it can have its ripple effects so that you don't get overwhelmed with all the things that you need to do.
Carlos:Um, and, and there's, and like you said before, there's a simple story which I think is also lent to the brand that, that makes easier to connect the dots as to why this doing this, buying this impacts makes an impact in a certain way.
John:Yeah, agree.
John:You've, you've, one of the learnings I'd say running a small business or a Startup is you've just gotta simplify everything and make it easy for customers to understand the communication of what you are doing.
John:I think if you get, you know, go across too many different parts of sustainability or, uh, people are impact on on people, then, then the messages get confused and people don't quite know what you're doing.
John:And, and also there's a lot of, there's a lot of green washing out there and there's a lot of tree planting going on and stuff.
John:And actually.
John:For us, it was our ray on de was, it was about having a, a cause that we get behind, but go out and, you know, we've got some beautiful video and photography from that and authenticate it and people can really see what they're doing, what the impact is of what they're doing,
John:rather than just sort of say, oh, we are doing this that, and will we give this extra percentage of our, our, our revenue to this or that.
John:It's hard for people to really get behind something when it hasn't, when you can't really see or touch what, what's going on.
John:So it was very important that whilst it was a, a single-minded idea that we, we also made sure that people could see for themselves that impact and the understanding of, of, um, what they were contributing towards.
Laurence:If you think of wanting to alleviate poverty in Africa as a, as a mission, then that's like setting yourself up for a, a failure in some ways.
Laurence:But like you said, starting with that, that kind of, uh, entry point, like you said is, is feels doable and it feels, uh, feels empowering 'cause it's maybe not sexy in some ways, but something that actually, like you said, creates a ripple effect.
Laurence:And I think a lot of people we meet want to change the system or change like the impact with a big eye.
Laurence:And it can almost stop you starting because it feels so weighty that you just dunno what your bit of it is and so therefore you don't dunno where you can actually make a difference.
Laurence:But I love this idea of starting with, retrofitting the business around the cause rather than coming up the product and then trying to find a purpose to sort of weave into the story.
John:Yeah.
John:Yeah.
John:True.
John:Uh, and, and the, obviously the importance outta this is partnerships.
John:So working with vision action, we would never be able to do, you know, we can't just turn up and Start, distributing glasses is, uh, or, or spectacles through, uh, vision centers.
John:You know, vision, action are, are the people on the ground and I went out on their outreach programs, have a very good relationship with them.
John:We get the stories back and they're authenticated.
John:So it's, yeah, you have to kind of get really down and connected to, to the, the charity or the NGO that you are, you are working with in order to make sure that, um, all is qualified and valid.
John:'cause I say you don't want to get sort roped into this sort of world of greenwashing and mis misinformation, um Mm.
John:About your brand.
John:Um, ' cause yeah, people, there's a lot of cynical people out there and I think, uh, you have to kind of really push through that and say, no, this is us.
John:This is what we do and this is how we authenticate it.
Carlos:so I'm just gonna give a bit of a context of how I'm thinking about this conversation.
Carlos:Um, one of, a core thing of what we do at Happy, Startup School is this group coaching program called Vision 2020.
Carlos:And we kind of question, we invite people to define what success means, and there's four quadrants, four areas that we like to look at, impact, connection, time and money.
Carlos:And so hearing your story about the, really focusing on, uh, eye health and eyecare and how that can really create an impact in terms of the, well, you know, financial wellbeing of people sounds so clear as a story.
Carlos:And then you start talking about having partnerships.
Carlos:And so I'm curious here from the lens of connection, from the lens of having collaborations, how did, how did you navigate that?
Carlos:'cause one of the challenges I think a lot of people have is.
Carlos:They either force a collaboration or they start on a basis that doesn't, doesn't continue for whatever reason.
Carlos:And it sounds like with your work, you managed to find the right people to work with.
Carlos:And I, I was just curious about what, how that went about, what did that mean?
Carlos:What was it about that relationship that was so, that had longevity for whatever that term?
John:I mean, I think from vision action's point of view, it was quite a, quite an easy conversation to have.
John:So, um, I looked for a, you know, I literally went on to Google and thought, right, what charities work in iCare in Africa?
John:And, and they were one of the leading ones.
John:And, um, went to their office and it was literally a conversation of, look, if, if you can provide me the visibility and, and the absolute transparency of where funding from Par goes, I'll go away and send the money your way to do that.
John:And from their point of view, that was great.
John:And we, we put a, we.
John:An agreement in place, uh, and a commitment to that.
John:And, um, but it's, yeah, it's about meeting, uh, it was, you know, meeting quarterly and having quarterly calls to understand the impact and if we were gonna go on some similar journeys with them and, uh, to, to some of their locations and, and understand the content that we could record and, and share again.
John:Um, and they've been really supportive and they put us in their newsletters and obviously we reach out to opticians that way.
John:So there's, there's value of, of visibility of, of working with a charity partner there.
John:But equally, we worked with, uh, an NGO in Ghana called, uh, care for Basket.
John:Um, and they, uh, worked with weaving communities, uh, in a, in a place called Bulb Batanga.
John:I always wanted Pala as much as possible to, to sort of touch back to Africa.
John:So our cases were made in, in Ghana, um, outta recycled plastic waste.
John:I.
John:and, normally the community, we would use straw, but unfortunately from climate change that's shifted a lot further south down country.
John:So for the women had to get on a bus, go out into the bush, come back, and it's sort of, you know, three hour journey.
John:And obviously the dangers, inherent dangers of, of traveling alone to gather your materials.
John:So we provided recycled plastic waste and water sashes as well as an endemic problem there in Ghana, that the water beds being poisoned by pesticides from the sixties and seventies.
John:Um, so you can't drink out a tap, you drink out of a water sachet.
John:so they get thrown on the ground.
John:You probably drink 10 or 12 of those a day and throw 'em on the ground.
John:But actually what we've done is by using water sachets in our cases, you are putting a value on those sachets and therefore, uh, they're not thrown on the ground.
John:They're collected in users and material.
John:And that's, uh, again, a sort of a success side to business.
John:I'm, I'm as proud of as, almost as a sunglasses because.
John:again, it was about, paying these, uh, weavers, uh, a good sum of money so that actually it was about, so, so they could pay for hospital fees and school fees and not just as assistance income and again, we heard wonderful stories from that.
John:Um, uh, whether it was being able to, to afford a bike to go to the well and pick up water and, and cycle back again.
John:And, and when we're over there in 2018, uh, LA met Val Weavers and, um, we took Polaroid Snaps of every single one.
John:So 130 photos.
John:It was really interesting 'cause obviously a no one had ever seen a photo just sort of appear in front of them, and b nobody had a photo of themselves, so it was, it was a really all valuable commodity to the point that, uh, a couple of years ago, one of the weavers died, unfortunately, um, and had a funeral.
John:They didn't have a photo, but, but they did have that photo, which they blew up and used and put it across in a pitch frame on her, her coffin.
John:So.
John:Really small things from our point of view, but it just shows you how, how valuable, um, this can be.
Carlos:what I was curious about as well was, and correct me if I'm wrong, I, I got an assumption there's lots of different charities around and lots of different charities and organizations that are trying to do stuff in Africa.
Carlos:It sounded like this particular one was well established.
Carlos:But is there anything here around the relationships you've built with those people, you know, how that worked?
Carlos:The trust, the understanding?
Carlos:I dunno, it's just, I'm just curious about how you.
Carlos:Chose who to work with.
Carlos:Was it purely based on the impact they could create or was there any kind of the way you communicated, did it, how, how was it about the relationship you had with the people who were within these organizations?
John:I mean, the truth is with Vision Action, they were based close by.
John:So there was, I wanted to work with a charity that I could visit and see and speak across the table, have a coffee with, and, and, and form a, a good relationship that way.
John:careful Basket, which obviously where I went off on a tangent, but my point being is that I, that was using the network to, to find, uh, a guy called J Hagan who runs that and he's based actually quite close by in, in Worthing.
John:Um, that was a sort of, um, slightly different scenario, but again, working closely with him, uh, we have a wonderful relationship.
John:He brings lots of vegetables over to me from his vegetable patch.
John:Um, I've just got him fixed up with some, some frames, uh, at his local opticians and we just, yeah, he, he'll always, he's, he's always been bright in selling his blood woven baskets and it is just, um, it's just a really nice human to human connection that we have.
John:And jib will be a friend of life.
John:It's, um, you know, whilst we won't be necessarily doing cases with him going forward, it's a wonderful, he's a wonderful man.
John:He came to my 50th birthday last year, um, and he's just the biggest, he's got a light we've made out of plastic with str sorry, light.
John:He's got a hat made with lots of plastic strands coming down with a solar panel and lights hanging off.
John:He's the most eco person you'll ever meet.
John:And, um, he's just got a wonderful temperament and that relationship, you, you couldn't, I could never sort that relationship.
John:It was a, it's a connection of a connection of a connection kind of thing, and it just happened.
John:And you have to feel very lucky that that happens from time to time.
Carlos:you know, this is interesting that you said there's something around the proximity of these people, this accessibility, they were nearby.
Carlos:I could talk to them rather than, you know, going so far away or, or, or making it hard is like people who are within your circles of connection or close by as a way to start this thing off, to make it as easy as possible, I'm assuming.
John:Yeah, yeah.
John:I mean, yes you can, but you look at other parts of the business.
John:When we first started producing, uh, frames, it was, initially it was in China with ethically altered factories, but the communications are so difficult and the time it took to get things done was, was really complicated from, from a supply chain that was really hard to do.
John:So maybe, yeah, having, having elements of, of, of.
John:Pala operating within the UK did make things a lot easier.
John:So all our packaging and print and all that kind of stuff was done locally.
John:Um, our frames made in Italy, now or been the last two or three years.
John:but again, communication is hard and, but I I, I go there once, twice a year and, and stay 'em for a weekend and, and properly sort of have a conversation with them and they would be brilliant.
John:Uh, the, the family, it's only a very small family run business and, and they wouldn't let me pay for anything and, and feel, I felt thoroughly entertained and, and they'd invite all their family around and have a nice big lunch in the garden sort of thing.
John:So, uh, again, they feel like friends as opposed to business and, and I don't know if that's a good approach to take to business is, is see everyone as friends as opposed to business.
John:'cause maybe that makes him more of a softer kind of business person in terms of a business head.
John:And, um, but I've never been someone to challenge really on price too much.
John:I've always felt that if that's what people.
John:Need to earn, then that's what, uh, that's what I should pay them.
John:it's, uh, feels me to be the fairest way.
John:And as a B Corp, again, you, you have to look into all this part of your supply chain and, and, um, how you pay people and you make sure you pay people correctly.
John:So, um, yeah, I'm not, I'm probably not the best at being, well, I'm just not a super aggressive person when it comes to, to business decisions in terms of really, I know there's people out there trying and hammer down their customers or their, not their customers, but their supply chain and suppliers on, on pricing.
John:Something I didn't do.
John:And I just felt that was part of being an ethical business
Carlos:Well, let's put it say you, you're not being radical by, uh, amongst us by saying it'd be nice to have friends as well as business, um, partners.
Carlos:So that's definitely aligned in terms of our way of thinking still in this area of connection.
Carlos:I wanted to move on to this idea of stories and branding, um, because the way I understood your approach is very much about the brand, not necessarily just about the product.
John:I mean, as a brand, basically, um, I wanted Pala to be, an easy vehicle for people to make a choice, for their eyewear.
John:So, It, it's very sort of the days of people in the street collecting money for, for charities and in boxes, I think is sort of, seems to be long gone.
John:It doesn't seem to be a thing that people do really anymore.
John:And so I wanted to make it easy, uh, you know, sustainability and, and is still a very small bubble.
John:I, unfortunately, I believe is in terms, especially in fashion, it's a hard one to crack.
John:It's, um, you know, sustainable fashion isn't, uh, inexpensive when it comes to purchasing and a lot of the population don't have the money to, to be able to afford sustainable fashion.
John:That's just the way it is at the moment with the way it works.
John:You need some of the bigger companies out there to go, you know, to come through and actually yeah, sort, sort their supply chains on out and, and bring down the overall cost in, in, uh.
John:In, in, in their sustainable fashion, as well as obviously pushing on government as well to make it encourage small businesses like us to, to survive and thrive.
John:'cause it's all very well saying it's sustainable, but actually being a sustainable business to sustain itself is a far harder act to follow.
John:But for me it is, it is very much having, backing yourself up in terms of having the content to authenticate yourself as a, a brand for good or business for good.
John:I say sustainable or good fashion has been hijacked, especially in the fashion space.
John:Uh, it has been hijacked a lot and we can, we couldn't trade on being a sustainable business anymore 'cause everyone was saying they sustainable, we're sustainable route.
John:So we had to very much, um, trade more on our Africa, Africa piece, which, which, 'cause we, we do sustainable eyewear.
John:It was all made from bio aate biodegradable and all our packaging was great and, and you know, no plastic.
John:But in terms of, in terms of the brand, uh, the brand building, it really has to be around.
John:just trying to get as much content as you can to say why you are part, what's your point of difference, um, and why, and you also need to talk from the, the heart.
John:It's quite interesting in our last sort of, you know, in our closing sort of six to seven weeks of, of business, I actually put myself more front of the business, uh, with a lot more, especially on LinkedIn and, and, and, um, on our Instagram and socials.
John:And lo and behold, we got a lot more traction that way.
John:So I think what I didn't well that trade off while you are.
John:Running your business, you don't have the time to, to be able to do that extra bit of content.
John:But obviously as, as time became more released, I found myself able to say, okay, there, we, we've got a, a sale on our, you know, I'll talk about the sale and how it's going, and then people really engage with that.
John:And, uh, I guess that's a learning, um, which is to give more time to, to, if you want to, but to put yourself out there as the face of your business, that is actually a, a point of difference between all the other eyewear brands.
John:Um, eyewear brands, quite funny, cliquey space to be in.
John:And nobody really tends to put their face out there.
John:They just hide behind their product.
John:but again, I think if you're a small company and you're trying to cut your teeth and trying to break through, then actually showing your own personality and your, again, your authenticity, it's always said, well, saying we're doing this great, all these great things, uh, on your website, but who's the person behind this?
John:And, and what are they saying about it?
John:And it does this marry up in my head.
John:And I think when you show that, um.
John:What you're saying is marrying up with what the founder is saying to the comms, their own personal comms to you, then I think, again, that adds real weight to, uh, a customer's, uh, opinion on a, on a brand.
Carlos:Ironic, uh, eyewear brands and the founders being invisible.
Laurence:So knowing that, do you feel like you would've done things differently at the start and be a bit more visible as a founder
John:yeah.
John:No, I, I think I would've done.
John:It's, it is, it's a personal tasting though.
John:It's, um, you kind of get this trade off if you kind of put yourself in front of the brand.
John:Does it feel a bit more cottage industry, a bit sort of young and not too confident in itself or, you know, a lot of the bigger, more developed brands, you don't really see the founders.
John:And I think that's maybe a, a, a, it's a personal decision maybe it depends what industry as well as to what you decide to do.
John:But for us, maybe that could have been, uh, one of the things that may have helped to accelerate more sales and obviously all the benefits that come with that.
John:It may not have done it, just, you know, it might have been the last six or seven weeks people just feeling a bit more sympathetic.
John:And we got whole, you know, we did a, you know, we did very well in the last six, seven weeks of sales.
John:Um, I'm not saying that's directly attributed to me by any stretch, probably 'cause the fact that the frames are half price.
John:But, um, I think you just have to make that judgment for yourself as to whether you feel that, um, your per your own personal brand, personal, you know, brand journal, whatever it is.
John:Is valuable for the business and not to let that take over.
John:Yeah.
John:Your, your, your branding either you don't want to be too front and center 'cause you are, you know, you are, your own people have different tastes to who that person is and you don't want to kind of dominate that and, and let that take over female brand either.
Laurence:Well, first I, me you made the story about the cause rather than your story.
Carlos:Yeah.
Carlos:I'm, I'm wondering about just on this point, about having your face there is what that does in terms of trust and whether having a human face there, um, helps with that more than just having a logo, particularly when you're a particular size.
Carlos:Not huge.
John:I would say so.
John:I would say so.
John:I mean, um.
John:I follow Finn there.
John:For example, Tom K obviously the founder.
John:He goes onto their socials now and again and does some pieces.
John:I think it's, it's a nice interruption of what you normally see on the scroll.
John:Uh, it just reinforces, I think, um, when you hear it coming from the founder's voice or even an employer, it doesn't have to be the founder.
John:If you are bigger than that, I think, uh, especially with your socials, I think you can be a bit more liberal with, with people talking about the business.
John:Um, I think there's a, how do you get their name on, but is it lic, which is a distillery, um, up in Scotland.
John:Um, and their socials are great, um, and different employees put stuff up there so you get a real sense of the family feel of that company.
John:And again, I think if, I think that's a really night for me, that's, I'm attracted to their social media for that.
John:They're not just putting up bottles of.
John:Uh, they're whiskey.
John:Um, as a, as a, because that's actually quite boring to, to keep looking at.
John:But when you hear the opinions of so and so who works in the, I don't know, in the, the driver of one of their lorries, and it just, just makes you feel more connected to the, to the brand and the business.
John:'cause it's you, you're hearing real human lives and, um, real people behind that company.
John:It's not just like a facade of um, imagery and, and, and slick kind of websites.
Carlos:So I'm gonna go into the next sort of area, which is about money, profit, um, financial sustainability, but also how it feels to make money.
Carlos:Um, tell me a bit more about what that meant for Pala and how, how you were navigating that and the things that you had to, the challenges that you may have faced.
John:Yeah, I, I think, uh, again, the way, I have no experience setting up a business, so.
John:Um, but I think in, in, in creating a sustainable and ethical business, um, so particularly one which is quite supply chain heavy, you tend to invest a lot of time in, in getting that correct.
John:And as I say, it is all about fair pay.
John:So, um, again, my sort of costs, costs or my cost price for my product compared to my Pearse in the same space was incredibly high.
John:Um, and I should have been selling my sunglasses a lot higher actually.
John:Um, but I didn't want to, the whole reason, I wanted par to be an aspirational brand for sort of middle income earners who maybe spend 50, 60 quid on the frame, but actually if they spent, you know, a little bit more, they'd get a really high quality frame and they'd get the, the ethical and the sustainable purpose that comes with the brand.
John:I mean, In the early days it was, uh, it was almost like look and feel in terms of how we, uh, in terms of pricing.
John:I mean, when Pala first started, when we working outta China, it was 45 pounds for a frame.
John:Not great, we'll just be online.
John:Do eyewear online and still be enough margin?
John:Not, not much, but enough margin to, to, to make sales, et cetera.
John:And these are my projections, aren't they?
John:Aren't they great?
John:And then you realize, especially with eyewear, I think, uh, people like to, um, try it on.
John:And so you need to start wearing, uh, working with stockists.
John:So we worked with stockists, but then obviously they need their margin.
John:And then actually from 45 pounds I had to make my, you know, my sunglasses had to be 80 pounds, for example, just to make sure that the stockists got their, get, got their piece.
John:Um, and then we started working with polarized frames and we started working in Italy and then all of a sudden you're sort of pricing at um, uh, 125 to, to 160 pounds, which is where we got to.
John:Um, and, but even then, it wasn't, it wasn't, it actually wasn't commercially right for us.
John:If you play by the normal conventions of pricing, we should have been 200 pounds plus per frame.
John:And, but I wasn't prepared to compromise that for our customers.
John:I wanted it to still be aspirational.
John:For middle income earners, not for the preserve of an nationalist society who probably buy five frames and not think anything of it.
John:So it was a real, I got caught in a, in a space there, which, um, I didn't particularly like and, and it was a conundrum, but I hadn't found an answer to, other than just keeping on putting up prices on frames.
John:And that's kind of didn't, that wasn't really something I, I wanted to do.
John:'cause I knew that I'd be ostracizing the, the audience.
John:So I always wanted to, to make it available for, in the first, uh, in the first place.
John:Um, so yeah, it's, it was, it was, uh, it's one of those things you learn over time, and I'm sure there's people with small businesses, pricing is one of the hardest things to get right.
John:Um, especially when there's so many components in supply chain, and especially when the last couple of years with, with inflation and that impact.
John:And again, having to keep putting your re retail prices up to, to accommodate that.
John:It's, it is definitely.
John:As you can see from 45 pounds to a polarized fan now to 160 pounds in the space of seven years.
John:Normally it goes the other way.
John:Normally people start high and go low.
John:I've actually, I've kept on going up, um, and trying to find that space for, for, for, for right pricing.
John:Um, it's good, but it, the problem being, you know, there is margin in it, but, um, if you've got, you know, to to, for all the overheads of the business, I still wasn't able to make a profit and in seven years not making profit.
John:Um, I'm sure there's people that will be aware.
John:It puts a lot of financial pressure on yourself.
John:I, I did have an investor, um, but equally that brings its own pressure as well.
John:Um, and you have to, we were closing the gap.
John:Um, we were sort of, you know, we, we were probably two, two years away I'd say, from uh, getting to sort of parity in terms of profit, um, which should have been like year nine.
John:And it's interesting because.
John:A lot of sustainable, and I've spoken to a lot of other sustainable businesses, especially in the product space.
John:Some have gone disappear the last couple of years, even B Corp that I know.
John:Um, but other ones, it's, it is taken 10 years, 12 years, 14 years.
John:I think even finished there.
John:It was, it was sort of year 13 or year 14 before they made profit.
John:And I think it's one of the learning things is, is you've gotta be really patient.
John:Um, when I first sat in front of my investor, I had these projections that year three, we'd be doing 150,000 pounds of profit.
John:And is the reality is, it's, it's just not that.
John:Um, you, you forget how difficult, uh, you know, there's a lot of competition, sunglasses.
John:There's a huge competition out there.
John:It's, there's a company called LA in Italy, 75% of all frames in the world are made from there.
John:So you got a sunglasses hut, all those different brands, Purcell, Prada, Tom Ford, Oakley, they all come, they're all licensed at the same factory.
John:So that's why there's a real.
John:Monopoly in the industry, and it's really hard to break that, especially with opticians.
John:The opticians will have great deals with Luxottica.
John:They're probably buying their frames half a price that I could go to them with.
John:So that market is a really skewed market, so it does make it very hard for you to compete in that space.
Carlos:you are saying here around, you know, it takes time.
Carlos:Um, you potentially two years away from profitability, um, finished air taking 13 years.
Carlos:It does help me transition nicely into this final topic.
Carlos:Time, um, time it takes to get the business sustainable in this case, but also how you want to spend your time.
Carlos:Because if it's only two years away, you could have waited around two years, but there was something that you made a decision to say, no, that's not enough.
Carlos:I, I can't wait that long.
Carlos:So talk to us a bit more about, in this case.
Carlos:The winding down of Pala and this idea of like, what it meant in terms of your, your time and your energy.
John:Yeah, I mean there's a, you know, when, when you first start your business that day, day one of trading, you are a very different person to the person that comes out seven years later.
John:Um, there's always hope, expectation.
John:I say you've got these kind of most falsified figures of, of where you think the cells are gonna go.
John:Uh, ignoring the fact that, uh, just getting a return on advertising, uh, across any platform is, is N one impossible, uh, or seemingly, uh, and you, you know, I would, I wanted to use all my creative abilities and all these kind of things that, uh, I was strong at, but as you kind of sort of grow, you know, as year, years go by, you end up.
John:Being pulled in and, and the business sort of starts to, to grow, you end up getting pulled into many parts of the business.
John:Um, and parts of the parts of which I'm not particularly strong at.
John:And, um, operations, I'm not particularly strong at that.
John:Um, I'm more of a, you know, my background was marketing, stroke sales, stroke, creativity.
John:And that's, that's great, but that's only a small part of, of running a business.
John:And eventually you become a, a jack of all trades, but master of none is what I'd probably consider myself.
John:And, uh, and again, sort of year five, six, and even seven, you are kind of, you feel like you're just constantly firefighting.
John:You'd love to be able to, um, focus on what you're good at.
John:Um, and, uh, you don't, and you end up facing all the stuff you're not good at and it takes a lot of time, and therefore time is something you lose completely.
John:Um.
John:I always worked Bank Holiday Mondays.
John:I saw that as a, a day of which I would be catching up a little bit.
John:I was kind of laughing to myself going, Woohoo, great, I'm, I'm actually, uh, I'm winning today 'cause nobody else is working today.
John:So I'm actually gonna, and this is a crazy thought.
John:Um, I should be taking bank Holiday Mondays and I'd work, you know, the weekends.
John:And, uh, I've got a thing, what I used to, I called it Sushi Monday, which is like, I'd work Mondays, nine till nine and I'd get, get half priced sushi at half nine when I went home.
John:All these stupid things that I kind of condition myself to do.
John:And actually, uh, when you're in there, you just don't even, you don't, you don't even notice it, but it creeps, it's creep.
John:But what you do notice the signals because.
John:Friends or relationships or all that kind of stuff, start coming back and, and noticing it.
John:And you start getting, oh, okay, yeah, actually I should have, I should have done this or that.
John:And you stop being proactive in your life outside of work, you just react, you know, I'm suddenly, it's Friday evening and I, I'm not even thought about what I'm doing.
John:So it, it does control you somewhat.
John:And I, and you know, I wish I could scale and bring people in to be able to do the, those bits well, but that's a, that's a cost to the business.
John:And, uh, so you are, you're putting more pressure on, again, on the business because scaling is one of the hardest things to do.
John:You've gotta get it right.
John:You don't wanna have a person doing this and, and another person doing that, and then suddenly you've got 50,000 pounds of extra revenue you've gotta find, um, just to cover that.
John:And so again, it's probably one of those huge, um, elements of, of a Startup, uh, of a struggle of a Startup is to know when to, to get that timing right.
John:And I'd say we, I mean, I never went beyond two people in the business in seven years, so a full-time people.
John:And that probably is an indication of never being confident enough to saying to my investor, okay, look, can you put some money behind us so we can have two people here?
John:This person needs operations.
John:This will, and this person can do something else.
John:And, and that will give me all the sales and this will give me the space, the head space to do the founder stuff.
John:Because the founder stuff kind of goes quite quickly because you are not able to.
John:You haven't got the time to do that, that side of the business.
John:And that's the stuff that's gonna separate you from the competition, ultimately is by being creative and maybe doing really good collaborations with people and being really insightful about that.
John:And yeah, it disappeared.
John:And, um, but you also don't realize it's happening as well.
John:It's, it's, it's a whole little thing.
John:It sneaks up on you.
John:And so, look, I had a, I had a meeting with my investor about seven weeks ago and, and, um.
John:There was quite an obvious, a conversation.
John:It was quite obvious that I probably wasn't getting any more investment.
John:And, um, part of my go to him was I needed to pay myself more.
John:And again, as many people work, small businesses know that you only try and pay yourself enough to allow the business to thrive.
John:But it got to the point where my own personal financial situation was tricky and you're kind of thinking about your mortgages.
John:And I had to sort of say to him that I need to, I need to pay myself more each month because I actually can't, I can't survive beyond the next two or three months.
John:And so, but there was a line of sand on that and it wasn't forthcoming.
John:So it actually made the decision easy for me.
John:I'm glad there was a line that I couldn't cross rather than trying to say two years rather than try and clinging on to this hope.
John:Um, it was good.
John:There was some, some certainty in that.
John:Uh, and I know that I can now try and prepare, um, I think I've got it written down, prepare my panic or plan my panic, um, for the next two or three months to, to, to make sure I can earn income in the short term to, to sustain myself and then focus on gay brand jp, so brand John, not JP brand on, um, in the future.
John:and so yeah, coming, coming out of the back of that.
John:So it's the sort of final, uh, answer to your question is the mental health is a huge part of this.
John:Um, absolutely.
John:'cause your mental health is inherently linked to your financial health.
John:And I remember at the start of this year, I was opening my laptop and I was so overwhelmed with the amount of work I had to do.
John:I didn't, I couldn't even, I, I'd sit there 5, 6, 7, 10 minutes not understanding where I could even start.
John:Um, and I think that's probably a sign of, burnout.
John:I dunno what the signs necessarily are.
John:But when you sit there to the point of inaction, it's kind of like, wow, okay, this isn't, this isn't what I, I started a business to end up being, becoming, um, and so I knew the signs are there and I thought, okay, so I've, something's gotta happen soon.
John:And actually my investor made that choice, um, which is great, rather than me kind of sitting on the fence.
John:So I've come out of it and people I know have said, you are a different person already, or you feel like the weight of your world is off your shoulders.
John:So, so, uh, yeah.
John:So that's, that's the difference between seven years ago.
John:That's sort of I'm a very different person till I was seven years ago.
John:Um, but I've learned a lot, a lot in the interim.
Carlos:there's a few questions I'd like to tackle before we we wrap up.
Carlos:Um, but I just wanted to just go back to what you just said.
Carlos:It's like, can you different person to what you were seven years ago, are you able to describe a couple of key differences that you feel beneficial difference?
Carlos:Let's, let's put it this way that you've, you've noticed or you've seen from when you started to where you are now?
John:I think it's kind of, it's still, it's reinforced.
John:Uh, look, I would not swap the last seven years for anything.
John:Uh, even though it's got to where you've got to, it's reinforced me what I want to do with my working life, which is basically be involved in sustainability or purpose.
John:So that's great.
John:And that's.
John:It's not, it's one of these things that we, we really need to be involved in anyway.
John:I think more as a, as a human race.
John:But it's really reinforced that for me.
John:So that's great.
John:And I've, I've not come out tainted by the fat.
John:I mean, there's a lot of cynicism around sustainability obviously.
John:And, and as I've mentioned, all sort of greenwashing and the kind of, what can I do about, well, we, you know, there's so much going on.
John:Again, there's the whole over, over overwhelm there.
John:But for me, I feel like that if I can do my small, small bit, and that's what Palo is about, making my, doing my small bit, my small way of, of creating change and impact.
John:And, and for me it was proof of concept in some respects that I can go out there and create something that created change.
John:And I did that from a, a blank sheet, um, with any, without any experience.
John:So, it's kind of given me confidence.
John:Um, I just need now to find that direction for my next, my next phase, whatever that looks like.
Carlos:uh, Cindy was asking a question about your investor, um, and how much they were invested in the purpose or the business idea.
Carlos:And I assume is it purely the profit or was it also the purpose?
Carlos:You know, what, are you able to say a bit more about that relationship?
John:Uh, yeah, I, it's an interesting one.
John:So my, um, my investor was, uh, the founder of asos, so quite strange coming, uh, having an investor from a fast fashion background.
John:Um, and yeah, I, I think from him I was a bit of an antidote to his far fashion empire and he invested in a number of businesses that were impact businesses.
John:Uh, and I wasn't the only one.
John:And, uh, maybe it was his way of sort of light touch giving back and saw Palo as a, as a, as a brand.
John:Back then, seven or eight years ago, quite a new, that sort of felt quite a new and different thing to be doing.
John:And he, he invested in us for, for that, on that, on that basis.
John:And so, yeah, I think it was, um, I think he wanted to make money though, uh, like any investor will do.
John:Um, but I'm not sure he realized that how long it would take to, it wasn't like, which after a few years went stratospheric.
John:Um, I think I've just seen someone else's comment, you know, especially with sustainable business, it just takes longer 'cause all your costs are so much higher and you're trying to do things well and, and, um, yeah, it just, it just is, uh, it say it's like the finished air example or there's other brands too.
John:Mm-Hmm.
John:Uh, where it just takes a long time to get, get there.
John:And maybe his patients ran out at the end and he couldn't see the sort of the, the vision that I had.
John:Um, and so, so I would say a bit of both is, it is not a great answer, but I think a bit he was interested in the giving back and the, the ethical purpose of the business.
John:Um, but it was probably mostly to try and make money out of it as opposed to understanding if we could just get a business, a sustainable business that functioned as a nice little B Corp, which is what I wanted to do with B Corp.
John:Where we all our profits basically went back into the business and giving back.
John:But yeah.
John:So slightly, slightly different alignment there, maybe.
Carlos:Well that it's the, the, the, the right answer if it's your answer.
Carlos:So thank you very much.
Carlos:Um, quick question on that.
Carlos:How, how did you find your investor for those out there?
Carlos:Oh, I'd love to find, it's a, it's
John:a really, it's, it's not a great one.
John:So he went to my school, um.
John:No, but I didn't know him.
John:He left when I got there, if that made sense.
John:But I did see he was at, he was talking at a, an event.
John:Uh, and so I went to that event and I literally door stepped him and he was guest speaker.
John:So I door stepped him and said, look, you run asos, I run an eyewear brand.
John:Um, can we just have a chat?
John:Um, and he said, well, here's my pa.
John:And I made a meeting and we got a meeting.
John:Um, and about nine months later sat in a cafe and Clapham, he, um, he said, okay, I'm, I'm in.
John:Um, so it's a slightly, it's not the old school network, but it did involve school.
John:So not the obvious route.
John:Unfortunately, I haven't had to really pitch too much to somebody, so I was very lucky, put it that way.
Carlos:Well, it was the power of serendipity it sounds like there.
Carlos:Uh, quick question here from, well, maybe not so quick question, but a question here from Sarah.
Carlos:She came interested in what purpose means, uh, and leaning towards it just being about being me, not just about work.
Carlos:So I think let's answer it from the perspective.
Carlos:What does it mean, what does purpose mean to you?
Carlos:How do you define purpose?
John:I mean, for me it's, it's, it's providing value beyond my own livable existence.
John:So it's, it's, i, I, I feel very privileged.
John:I'm a classic white male, fifties person.
John:Um, I think, uh, it's up to me to be able to help less advantage or more disadvantaged people in if, in whatever capacity that looks like.
John:So for me, purpose is.
John:Doing stuff outside my immediate ecosystem.
John:And, and it can be anything.
John:It could be anything and how, what that looks like.
John:I, I, human impact tends to be the space I am more interested in rather than environment, but environment inherently.
John:With Pala, it was, it was all about eco products and stuff, so it kind of comes hand in hand.
John:It's like V Corp values really, um, of, of sustainability and, and environment.
John:So, yeah, outside of work, I just, I make my own personal decisions on, you know, I, I walk everywhere.
John:I, I, I, I don't use, you know, I use back, you know, recycle back all the kind of things that you'd expect, but try do more.
John:I buy maybe three or four items of clothing a year.
John:I, I, I have, I have my own personal standards and.
John:That all type for me types rolls back into purpose.
John:'cause it still impacts the environment and social impact too, and who I buy my clothes through and all that kind of stuff.
John:So, um, yeah, it just tends to be, uh, trying to think more laterally about my decision, my own personal decision.
Carlos:Is there anything, uh, any final thoughts you wanna leave with people and a little bit prompt here, like Ray had a question about whether being on purpose so much of the time results actually result in Happiness and he seems to see there's lots of evidence to suggest it does not, but, um.
Carlos:Just, you know, don't have to answer that directly, but that's, that was a curious comment there.
Carlos:Any final thoughts from you?
John:What I've noticed in your, your, um, these cast before is that you always have people who've got great quotes and all this kind of stuff, and I did set one aside.
John:Um, I've been listening to a podcast recently and it's Dr.
John:Rangan Chatterjee.
John:And I dunno if people know about this guy.
John:He has a pod.
John:I mean, there's a woman he, uh, speaks with called Brony Ware, um, who's wrote the book, um, and it's called, it's something along the lines of the top five regrets of, dying.
John:And she spent eight years, uh, in hospitals dealing with end of life patients.
John:And there's a podcast she speaks with Dr.
John:Rangan chat.
John:And the number one thing that people, or the number one regret was, I wish I lived life true to myself, not the life expected of me.
John:Um, and that for me is really, I, that to me probably answers a lot of those questions, but for me, that is, that's so important.
John:That's kind of how I am trying to move forward in my own life.
John:It's, I don't worry about what other people's expectations.
John:What, what, what on my death bed will I look back and feel that I actually lived my life, um, to the fullest?
John:' cause ultimately, when you are on your bed, on your deathbed, you are gonna be the only judge of your, your life.
John:And, um, the second, actually, the second, um, second.
John:I wish it didn't work so hard.
John:There we go.
John:Yeah.
John:So, so that would be my recommendation.
John:If you haven't heard that pod, uh, that podcast, uh, it's brilliant.
John:Uh, it's, uh, I've played it two or three times to myself now, and I just pick up new things each time.
John:But it's.
John:Stat has been a real help for me in the last six to seven weeks coming outta this space, um, is just kind of being, just, just being kinder on myself.
John:You put a lot of pressure on yourself running your own business, and I think, uh, and you have a lot of expectations, but actually we did a bloody good job with Pala and we've got legacy to show for it, and I'm happy with that, and I can now move forwards and do something even better.
John:And so that's, um, that's, that's what I wish for.
Carlos:Perfect answer up there with all the greats on the Friday.
Carlos:Friday,
Laurence:you were now on Instagram quite forever.
Laurence:Yeah.
Laurence:there's no simple answer to that question, is there, but it feels to me there's, there is that tension certainly in your story of.
Laurence:Wanting to do good, but also almost your own needs becoming last and, and how that, I think we can do that for a while, but to do it over an extended timeframe where you haven't got a guaranteed end, it feels like, that's why I think it's takes a lot of courage to then go, actually, yeah, this isn't failure at this end.
Laurence:This is just an evolution and whatever comes next will, will be more you or more in tune to how you wanna live your life.
Laurence:But it feels to me you're in that Startup mode for a long time.
Laurence:And that hustle to do that for seven years, I can see why that would be, um, something that you just couldn't keep going for.
Laurence:Um, so yeah, in, in some ways it's uh, good to sort of admit that and be aware of it and then move on.
Laurence:And Sounds like already you're getting benefits from it.
John:Yeah, well, it's part of the celebration and in the last six weeks.
John:All the stuff you've seen is we're celebrating Pala as opposed to being and, and, sorry, I know this is going, one of the things I did was a video of all the people in and around Pala.
John:It wasn't me, just me or Kaylee that worked it.
John:And we did, we, I probably got about 25 people just saying thank you.
John:'cause I wanted our customers to understand the wider people, the value of a network, the value of people.
John:And I know there's people who are watching this who have provided me amazing value for nothing.
John:Uh, which is what you need as a Startup is just people helping.
John:And I think when you're in a sustainable space, they are far more willing to help.
John:And when they're seeing what you're trying to do, they're far more willing to help.
John:So, um, it's, that's been an incredible thing for me too.
John:And I wanted to, for people to know that Pala isn't just me or whatever.
John:It's a huge empire of people out there who have helped.
John:Even you, Carlos, you know, we've had conversations, people who can just, you can have half an hour with.
John:It's been fabulous.
John:And that network hasn't disappeared.
John:And that's what instills me with confidence going forward, is that I, oops, I've got this opportunity to, to really ignite that still and, and create something great off the back of that and, you know, watch this space, see what happens next.
John:Hmm.
Carlos:Awesome.
Carlos:Watch this space.
Carlos:Brilliant.
Carlos:Um, there's three things that is coming to mind.
Carlos:A very kind of practical side of things is, is the money aspect.
Carlos:And what I heard was like, if you were a traditional business for want a better term, you can just squeeze down costs, squeeze down costs, and then you can make a profit and you can stay around.
Carlos:But if you are, if you can't compromise on that, if that isn't something you are prepared to do, then where does the, where does the space come from?
Carlos:What, what, what'd you do there?
Carlos:And how does that happen?
Carlos:Whether that's story, whether that's customers, whether that's scale, I dunno, but there's a real question for people who are purpose driven.
Carlos:If you're not gonna compromise here, what do you need to do here?
Carlos:I'm really curious as to that question.
Carlos:Um, the other aspect to this was this idea of, um, being true to yourself.
Carlos:Uh, and the question, I think a lot of people I meet, um, and even to myself, my own question, I ask, what does that mean to be true to myself?
Carlos:Yeah.
Carlos:How much of this is me?
Carlos:How much of this is a need to please someone else is like, there's that journey of self awareness so that we then can do work that is really authentic as opposed to serving someone else's need.
Carlos:Which is a curious question for me.
Carlos:I think a lot of people would ask themselves.
Carlos:And then the third thing is this deathbed part of thing.
Carlos:You know, looking back what you know, what is success?
Carlos:What does success mean to me?
Carlos:Um.
Carlos:Part of what I heard is there's this idea of richness, a rich life.
Carlos:And, and one way of thinking about rich life is a life full of stories, full of really interesting stories.
Carlos:And there's a Instagram post someone shared with me is like, no risk, no story.
Carlos:And so what I've heard is, you, you took a big risk over the past seven years and you did so many things and you have so many stories, and now you have a richness that you can bring forward to, to whatever comes next.
Carlos:So that's my reflection on that.
Carlos:Thank you very much for really sharing, honestly, like everyone's saying, your honest story about what, where, how you got to where you are now and, and looking forward to what comes next.
Carlos:Mm-Hmm.
Carlos:Um, for those of the listeners who are either came live or will be listening to the podcast, if they wanted to reach out to you and just find out more and maybe connect with you, learn from you maybe, and they wanna pick your brains and, and.
John:absolutely.
John:I mean, probably LinkedIn, I'll be losing my email address quite soon, so maybe LinkedIn, uh, would be the best place to find me.
John:John Pritchard probably type in Pala Eyewear,
Carlos:Brilliant.
Carlos:Thank you very much again.
Carlos:You take care, care.
Carlos:Have a great rest of the day and yeah, don't work this weekend, please.
John:This weekend.
John:Can't wait.
