Who am I becoming?

Amelia White: 00:00:00

I was feeling quite burnt out and quite exhausted, and realised

Amelia White: 00:00:05

how much I was giving to everyone else and not really receiving anything back,

Amelia White: 00:00:12

And it's like something's got to change.

Amelia White: 00:00:14

And I think when Laurence appeared in my inbox and it's going, "Oh,

Amelia White: 00:00:18

how do I meet my own needs?" And it was like, okay, it's time.

Amelia White: 00:00:22

There was just something going, okay, this is the right time to do this

Amelia White: 00:00:26

So I've loved being with people from all different areas of the world,

Amelia White: 00:00:29

different businesses and experiences, and, I want to say loved and supported.

Amelia White: 00:00:34

That's what it's often really felt like.

Amelia White: 00:00:36

And being met as I am now, as who I am now, has just enabled me

Amelia White: 00:00:42

to, step more into just who I am.

Carlos Saba: 00:00:52

This is the Happy MBA podcast for people redesigning work

Carlos Saba: 00:00:56

and businesses around who they are now.

Carlos Saba: 00:00:58

If you find traditional business advice never quite fitting,

Carlos Saba: 00:01:01

you're in the right place

Carlos Saba: 00:01:06

so to s- kick things off I just wanted to just share something that we've used on

Carlos Saba: 00:01:12

the Vision 2020 program, introduced to us by Lana, as a way to just frame the work

Carlos Saba: 00:01:19

and the journey that we take people on, and it's called the Satir Change Model.

Carlos Saba: 00:01:24

It's quite a complex model uh, but we try to simplify it for our purposes

Carlos Saba: 00:01:29

of just understanding what is this work about and why is it important.

Carlos Saba: 00:01:34

And there's different stages, and it describes as just transition.

Carlos Saba: 00:01:37

This kind of idea of change, where you start from one place, you wanna get

Carlos Saba: 00:01:40

to another, and stuff gets in the way.

Carlos Saba: 00:01:43

And I love this journey as it's described here because at some point

Carlos Saba: 00:01:47

you go into this pit of chaos, where you're trying to work out, what's next?

Carlos Saba: 00:01:51

Who am I?

Carlos Saba: 00:01:52

What am I gonna do?

Carlos Saba: 00:01:53

What are the things I need to learn?

Carlos Saba: 00:01:54

Who are the things I need to be?

Carlos Saba: 00:01:55

All of these bits and pieces.

Carlos Saba: 00:01:58

And sometimes what we need is just that little idea, that little handhold or that

Carlos Saba: 00:02:03

meeting, that conversation, that just shifts us into action and doing mode.

Carlos Saba: 00:02:09

So that's the broader context of this idea, who am I becoming?

Carlos Saba: 00:02:13

It is a phase of a transition, and that transition could be a new business, it

Carlos Saba: 00:02:18

could be a new direction in life, it could be a new partnership, it could

Carlos Saba: 00:02:22

new, new direction in your own business.

Carlos Saba: 00:02:23

There's lots of ways you can take this.

Carlos Saba: 00:02:26

But this hopefully gives you an illustration of how that arc flows.

Carlos Saba: 00:02:31

And so before we go too deeply into this, I'd love to just bring Laurence

Carlos Saba: 00:02:34

and Lana in to just share their kind of relationship to this work and their

Carlos Saba: 00:02:39

relationship to this idea, and how they're turning up for this conversation.

Carlos Saba: 00:02:44

So who do we go f- Lana, that's the first person we talk to.

Lana Jelenjev: 00:02:48

Oh this model I know, Carlos, we kept on saying Satir

Lana Jelenjev: 00:02:52

Change Model is like the gift that keeps on giving because it really is

Lana Jelenjev: 00:02:57

that arc that says it's an expanding spiral of- The moment that you are

Lana Jelenjev: 00:03:03

in the space where, "Oh, I think I'm settled," and then something happens

Lana Jelenjev: 00:03:06

again, and then you recalibrate.

Lana Jelenjev: 00:03:09

re- reposition and reattune with life.

Lana Jelenjev: 00:03:12

And so this process of becoming for me is that constant recalibration and

Lana Jelenjev: 00:03:17

reattunement, and I often refer to it is as the Filipino pr- practice of

Lana Jelenjev: 00:03:23

pakikiiramdam, of deep attunement, of like how can I be in deep attunement

Lana Jelenjev: 00:03:28

to what's emerging for me in life, and through life, and with life.

Lana Jelenjev: 00:03:33

And so, it seems, you know, it seems like, oh, it's a never-ending process,

Lana Jelenjev: 00:03:39

but that is part of life, right?

Lana Jelenjev: 00:03:40

That is that expanding spiral in which we go through life.

Lana Jelenjev: 00:03:45

And so for me, the work is to notice when I'm resisting, you know, to notice when

Lana Jelenjev: 00:03:51

I'm in tension with myself of "But why? Why do I have to go through this again?"

Lana Jelenjev: 00:03:55

Or uh, "Why do I have to shift things again?" So to notice those narratives of

Lana Jelenjev: 00:04:01

resistance, and then to also offer myself grace in these phases of resistance, of

Lana Jelenjev: 00:04:07

okay, what am I protecting myself from?

Lana Jelenjev: 00:04:09

And and just to also practice surrendering.

Lana Jelenjev: 00:04:13

Like where would this lead, and how can I invest- embrace emergence in this process?

Lana Jelenjev: 00:04:18

So a lot of deep work that's, that it entails in just that word of becoming.

Lana Jelenjev: 00:04:25

How about you, Laurence?

Laurence McCahill: 00:04:26

Thanks, Lana.

Laurence McCahill: 00:04:27

Um, well, I believe Lana introduced us to the Satir Change Model, if I'm right.

Laurence McCahill: 00:04:31

Like a lot of the tools that we use on the program uh, like Carlos

Laurence McCahill: 00:04:35

said, we've uh, I said adopted it and adapted it for our needs.

Laurence McCahill: 00:04:38

But yeah, I've been fascinated by it because I was thinking about this.

Laurence McCahill: 00:04:42

I think with this whole becoming thing, for me, I used to be tied to the idea that

Laurence McCahill: 00:04:46

business was all about making and success.

Laurence McCahill: 00:04:48

You know, In terms of like you either put something out and it works or you…

Laurence McCahill: 00:04:52

or it doesn't, and so it's very binary.

Laurence McCahill: 00:04:54

Whereas actually this, parallel journey that happens with us as founders or

Laurence McCahill: 00:04:58

leaders where we're on this transition, journey of transition ourselves, aside

Laurence McCahill: 00:05:02

from what we're creating is the work.

Laurence McCahill: 00:05:04

And I don't think you can grow yourself… I don't think you can

Laurence McCahill: 00:05:06

grow, I don't think you can grow your business without growing yourself.

Laurence McCahill: 00:05:08

So I've certainly been drawn into this.

Laurence McCahill: 00:05:12

And also seeing how this whole practice and integration, how actually it's not

Laurence McCahill: 00:05:16

just about having an idea or an insight.

Laurence McCahill: 00:05:18

It's about how do you integrate this, like you said, how do you align and

Laurence McCahill: 00:05:21

attune this to how you wanna live?

Laurence McCahill: 00:05:23

And for me, that's been the work for certainly me and Carlos, I think, in

Laurence McCahill: 00:05:26

terms of daily living our values and our vision, even if it's been harder times.

Laurence McCahill: 00:05:30

But also seeing how others… This kind of like compound effect of being together,

Laurence McCahill: 00:05:36

iterating towards something, and even if that idea doesn't work, it doesn't matter.

Laurence McCahill: 00:05:39

It's about who you're becoming as part of this process of building something

Laurence McCahill: 00:05:43

and trying to be less tied to the outcome, as hard as that can be.

Laurence McCahill: 00:05:47

'Cause we wanna see results, right?

Laurence McCahill: 00:05:49

We want things to work.

Laurence McCahill: 00:05:50

But I think sometimes the intangible things are actually the most

Laurence McCahill: 00:05:53

valuable, and they take time to bear fruit and sometimes years later.

Laurence McCahill: 00:05:57

And that's the hard thing is you can't hold it and see it, but you can feel

Laurence McCahill: 00:05:59

it, and that's what I would hope for everyone and for ourselves to continue

Laurence McCahill: 00:06:03

on that journey to, to wholeness really.

Carlos Saba: 00:06:06

Thank you, Laurence.

Carlos Saba: 00:06:08

So I feel that the thing that's most obvious for people when

Carlos Saba: 00:06:12

they're doing this, a new thing or they're in business is a feeling.

Carlos Saba: 00:06:17

They don't necessarily know it's a map, they don't necessarily

Carlos Saba: 00:06:19

know it's a direction.

Carlos Saba: 00:06:20

It's just something just feels off.

Carlos Saba: 00:06:22

And one of the feelings that I think a lot of people who join the program

Carlos Saba: 00:06:26

is they're settled but restless.

Carlos Saba: 00:06:28

That's one of the situations that some of the people who come on the program feels,

Carlos Saba: 00:06:32

and I know I've felt, and we felt actually when we were closing down our agency.

Carlos Saba: 00:06:36

It's like this works, but it's not quite right.

Carlos Saba: 00:06:40

And being able to put words to those feelings and, in our case,

Carlos Saba: 00:06:44

trying to put some simple framework for that feeling so then know,

Carlos Saba: 00:06:47

all right, where do I move next?

Carlos Saba: 00:06:50

What is the next thing that needs to be done?

Carlos Saba: 00:06:52

'Cause that's the biggest challenge for a lot of people is

Carlos Saba: 00:06:54

like, "What do I do with this?"

Carlos Saba: 00:06:56

Do I start a new idea?

Carlos Saba: 00:06:57

If I start a new idea, what's the first thing I do with that idea?

Carlos Saba: 00:06:59

And, And you get into a whole soup of mess trying to work out.

Carlos Saba: 00:07:03

Analysis paralysis and overthinking.

Carlos Saba: 00:07:05

But that's a whole nother meta-conversation.

Carlos Saba: 00:07:09

So with that idea okay, something doesn't feel quite right.

Carlos Saba: 00:07:12

I need to change.

Carlos Saba: 00:07:13

Something needs to change, and then you go through this process.

Carlos Saba: 00:07:15

I wanted to share some stories.

Carlos Saba: 00:07:18

Or we wanted to share some stories to give you… as, the person that we're

Carlos Saba: 00:07:23

trying to talk to really about with this call, is that you are in this position

Carlos Saba: 00:07:27

of like something needs to change.

Carlos Saba: 00:07:29

Not sure qui- quite what that is.

Carlos Saba: 00:07:31

And it feels like just doesn't feel right or just feels, I'm

Carlos Saba: 00:07:35

gonna say, use the word bad.

Carlos Saba: 00:07:36

Like you feel I'm failing, I'm not doing the right thing.

Carlos Saba: 00:07:38

I'm not ahead.

Carlos Saba: 00:07:39

I'm not doing the thing that should be done.

Carlos Saba: 00:07:42

So hopefully these stories will just give you something to frame where you are

Carlos Saba: 00:07:47

that is actually a place of opportunity.

Carlos Saba: 00:07:50

It is a place of uncertainty maybe, but it feels like you're not alone.

Carlos Saba: 00:07:54

So I'm going to invite each of the, our guests here to just share a little

Carlos Saba: 00:07:59

bit about their own journeys or their stories about how they're tackling

Carlos Saba: 00:08:04

this question, who am I becoming?

Carlos Saba: 00:08:06

So Amelia, … I'd like for you first to just share where you're based how you'd

Carlos Saba: 00:08:11

like to describe your work as it is right now, and then whatever you feel called to

Carlos Saba: 00:08:16

say in terms of this question of who am I becoming and what that means for you.

Amelia White: 00:08:20

Okay.

Amelia White: 00:08:21

I am in Brighton and Hove in the UK, and I work as a psychotherapist.

Amelia White: 00:08:27

So I've been working as a therapist the last 15 years or so, but in the last five

Amelia White: 00:08:33

years I have chosen to specialize working with those who went to boarding school.

Amelia White: 00:08:38

So really supporting them with a lot of the trauma that I will say every

Amelia White: 00:08:42

child who goes to boarding school has.

Amelia White: 00:08:45

And I've really dedicated the last five years to building up my reputation

Amelia White: 00:08:50

in this area, and I run quite a large online course for people from

Amelia White: 00:08:54

all over the world to examine this.

Amelia White: 00:08:57

But I came onto this or I found you because in September I was feeling

Amelia White: 00:09:03

quite burnt out and quite exhausted, and realised how much I was giving to

Amelia White: 00:09:10

everyone else and not really receiving anything back, which is all that I've

Amelia White: 00:09:15

done all my life since being a child.

Amelia White: 00:09:17

And it's like something's got to change.

Amelia White: 00:09:20

And I think when Laurence appeared in my inbox and it's going, "Oh,

Amelia White: 00:09:23

how do I meet my own needs?" And it was like, okay, it's time.

Amelia White: 00:09:28

So and it was quite a spontaneous, impulsive thing actually, 'cause I

Amelia White: 00:09:31

know I'd been in touch with you a year before and just thought, "No, I need

Amelia White: 00:09:34

to keep building and keep building."

Amelia White: 00:09:36

And then suddenly it was like, no, I need to find a way to, yeah, support

Amelia White: 00:09:40

myself in a different kind of way.

Amelia White: 00:09:43

So I didn't really know what I was coming into.

Amelia White: 00:09:46

I didn't really have much of an idea.

Amelia White: 00:09:47

There was just something going, okay, this is the right time to do this

Amelia White: 00:09:52

which is what brought me into this.

Carlos Saba: 00:09:54

Thank you.

Carlos Saba: 00:09:55

And then in terms of that, this journey, we're now coming towards the end of it.

Carlos Saba: 00:09:59

What is the… what has been your experience in that idea of becoming-

Amelia White: 00:10:05

I think one of the biggest things for me has been you, Lot.

Amelia White: 00:10:10

It's because there's something about collaboration and connection.

Amelia White: 00:10:14

So a lot of what I do, or a real trait of ex-borders, is

Amelia White: 00:10:20

you do everything on your own.

Amelia White: 00:10:21

It's all about working on your own.

Amelia White: 00:10:22

Don't ask for help.

Amelia White: 00:10:23

Don't share anything.

Amelia White: 00:10:24

You're strong, capable, independent.

Amelia White: 00:10:26

You can do it all.

Amelia White: 00:10:28

And the absolute joy in being with a group of people who are

Amelia White: 00:10:33

different, that's what I loved.

Amelia White: 00:10:35

So I've loved being with people from all different areas of the world,

Amelia White: 00:10:38

different, different businesses and experiences, and being met and connected

Amelia White: 00:10:42

and, I want to say loved and supported.

Amelia White: 00:10:45

That's what it's often really felt like.

Amelia White: 00:10:47

And being met as I am now, as who I am now, has just enabled me to, I want

Amelia White: 00:10:55

to say step more into just who I am.

Amelia White: 00:10:58

So it doesn't necessarily feel like anything huge has changed about me.

Amelia White: 00:11:04

It's more that, as I've been saying earlier, it's more about

Amelia White: 00:11:07

the coming out as who I am.

Amelia White: 00:11:09

Not always having to be something for someone else, but just going, "Actually,

Amelia White: 00:11:14

me myself has a lot to offer just by being me." … And actually, one other

Amelia White: 00:11:18

thing, it's about stepping into my adult self, which is me at this age right here,

Amelia White: 00:11:22

right now, rather than the kind of child part of me that's always maybe trying to

Amelia White: 00:11:28

please or to feel safe by providing stuff for other people or that kind of thing.

Amelia White: 00:11:33

So it's about taking risks on being seen and being- Mm …… outed.

Amelia White: 00:11:39

That's my- … going forwards.

Amelia White: 00:11:41

That kind of thing.

Carlos Saba: 00:11:43

Wow.

Laurence McCahill: 00:11:44

Beautiful.

Carlos Saba: 00:11:45

That's the phrase, taking the risk of being seen.

Carlos Saba: 00:11:48

Mm-hmm.

Carlos Saba: 00:11:49

Mm. Yeah.

Carlos Saba: 00:11:50

And that's uh, I think that a lot of us can resonate with that,

Carlos Saba: 00:11:53

particularly when you're doing something that's close to your heart.

Carlos Saba: 00:11:55

So-

Amelia White: 00:11:57

Yeah.

Amelia White: 00:11:57

But it's also doing stuff that's close to my heart rather than the thing that

Amelia White: 00:12:01

I think that I should be doing because that's what I was told as a child, or

Amelia White: 00:12:05

society's told me, or school's told me.

Amelia White: 00:12:08

It's going, "Really? Can I really do that and have fun and also make

Amelia White: 00:12:13

life less stressful? Is that okay?"

Amelia White: 00:12:15

" Desiree Adkins: Mm.

Amelia White: 00:12:16

"Am I worthy if I do that?" So it's just having all

Amelia White: 00:12:19

that kind of stuff challenged with other people who believe the same.

Amelia White: 00:12:24

So that's really been important, stepping into a group of

Amelia White: 00:12:26

different types of people for me.

Carlos Saba: 00:12:30

Thank you, Amelia.

Carlos Saba: 00:12:31

For those of you watching live I'd love to hear in the chat

Carlos Saba: 00:12:35

are you allowed to have fun?

Carlos Saba: 00:12:38

Are you allowed to just be less stressed in work?

Carlos Saba: 00:12:40

I'd love to know if that's your world.

Carlos Saba: 00:12:42

Thank you, Amelia.

Carlos Saba: 00:12:44

Okay, moving on.

Carlos Saba: 00:12:46

Ann-Marie, I'd love to hear from you.

Carlos Saba: 00:12:48

Just, yeah, share a l- a bit like Amelia to begin with where you're

Carlos Saba: 00:12:51

based and how you like to describe what you're doing now, and then, yeah,

Carlos Saba: 00:12:55

your take on this becoming journey.

Carlos Saba: 00:12:59

Ann-Marie Anderson-Mayes: Thank you.

Carlos Saba: 00:12:59

Um, so, uh, I'm in Perth in Western Australia.

Carlos Saba: 00:13:02

I run an embroidery business, which I've been running since 2012.

Carlos Saba: 00:13:06

I design and teach hand embroidery.

Carlos Saba: 00:13:09

My original background's actually in maths and physics, so the kind

Carlos Saba: 00:13:11

of embroidery I do is really mathy and geometric and very colorful.

Carlos Saba: 00:13:15

I always knew as I was running this business that there was something

Carlos Saba: 00:13:18

more than embroidery to it.

Carlos Saba: 00:13:19

I used to say to my friends, "It's not just about the embroidery. There's

Carlos Saba: 00:13:22

something more to it." It took me a while to work out what that was.

Carlos Saba: 00:13:26

And in 2019 I came up with this idea of the Hands Manifesto, which is how

Carlos Saba: 00:13:31

important it is to do work with our hands as a way of deepening our thinking

Carlos Saba: 00:13:36

in lots of different ways or deepening our learning in lots of different ways.

Carlos Saba: 00:13:40

And then I got long COVID, and so all of the work that I was trying to do on the

Carlos Saba: 00:13:44

Hands Manifesto got interrupted, and I didn't quite know how to get back to it.

Carlos Saba: 00:13:48

I met Carlos and Laurence through another digital community that we're

Carlos Saba: 00:13:52

a part of, and then in May last year I met Carlos in person in London when we

Carlos Saba: 00:13:56

were visiting, and it was fantastic.

Carlos Saba: 00:13:59

Sparked ideas.

Carlos Saba: 00:14:01

And I asked Carlos, "Do you think it would be a good fit for me?" And he

Carlos Saba: 00:14:04

sent me an email that literally, I don't know if I've ever told Carlos this,

Carlos Saba: 00:14:07

but literally gave me chills because he could see things in the tension between

Carlos Saba: 00:14:14

the two parts of what I was trying to do that I hadn't actually enunciated.

Carlos Saba: 00:14:18

And I just went, "I've gotta, I've gotta work with somebody who can see

Carlos Saba: 00:14:22

the potential in what I'm trying to do." And so I joined because I felt seen and

Carlos Saba: 00:14:28

accepted for these two very different parts that I was trying to pull together,

Carlos Saba: 00:14:33

and I wanted to see what would happen.

Carlos Saba: 00:14:37

Wonderful.

Carlos Saba: 00:14:38

Thank you, Marie.

Carlos Saba: 00:14:39

And yeah, similarly to Amelia, what's this journey been like, and where,

Carlos Saba: 00:14:43

yeah, wh- where have you got to?

Carlos Saba: 00:14:46

Ann-Marie Anderson-Mayes: The journey has been amazing in many ways, and not at all

Carlos Saba: 00:14:48

what I expected because I thought that I was coming to work on these two parts of

Carlos Saba: 00:14:53

my business, which I have, but as much as anything, I've got to understand myself.

Carlos Saba: 00:14:58

And every time I think about it it comes up with different words.

Carlos Saba: 00:15:02

And we were on a call earlier today, and the words that I use to describe it is

Carlos Saba: 00:15:07

that I used to look at Beautiful Stitches in particular, my embroidery business,

Carlos Saba: 00:15:11

as this funny little entity that just lived in a funny corner of the world.

Carlos Saba: 00:15:16

And I don't think I'd given myself enough credit for all the things that I'd learnt

Carlos Saba: 00:15:20

over 14 years of running this business.

Carlos Saba: 00:15:22

And we would do activities as groups here, and I'd go, "Oh, I think I know

Carlos Saba: 00:15:27

more about this than I thought I did." And then I could reflect on Beautiful

Carlos Saba: 00:15:32

Stitches, on what it, and what it had done, and then go, "Oh, I can do the same

Carlos Saba: 00:15:36

thing or at least a parallel with the Hands Manifesto." And the Hands Manifesto

Carlos Saba: 00:15:40

had always felt really scary, like it was too big, it was too overwhelming.

Carlos Saba: 00:15:43

I didn't know how to bring it into Beautiful Stitches.

Carlos Saba: 00:15:45

I mostly run Beautiful Stitches completely on my own, and it keeps me very busy.

Carlos Saba: 00:15:49

How was I gonna bring this together?

Carlos Saba: 00:15:50

And the course has taught me to value what I have and to value the skills that

Carlos Saba: 00:15:56

I have, and it's really centered me in being me, and for it being completely

Carlos Saba: 00:16:02

okay for me to show up and say, "This is how I choose to do business.

Carlos Saba: 00:16:08

It may not be the way that the books tell me or somebody else tells me, but this

Carlos Saba: 00:16:11

is the way I choose to show up." I've actually just had my first class today

Carlos Saba: 00:16:16

teaching, and it's the first time I've been back teaching since I started this

Carlos Saba: 00:16:19

course, 'cause I had a bit of a break last year to give myself space to do this work.

Carlos Saba: 00:16:24

And I used to almost treat Beautiful Stitches like she was a

Carlos Saba: 00:16:27

teenager, and now she's an adult.

Carlos Saba: 00:16:30

And she is just standing firm and saying, "This is what I do.

Carlos Saba: 00:16:35

This is how I do it, and there are all these different dimensions that

Carlos Saba: 00:16:39

I want to explore and play with.

Carlos Saba: 00:16:40

I don't know what they're gonna look like.

Carlos Saba: 00:16:42

I know what some of them are gonna look like." But it's just this really settled

Carlos Saba: 00:16:45

groundedness in what I do now, and confidence to take all the exploratory

Carlos Saba: 00:16:52

playful stuff that was first there for Beautiful Stitches into this new combined

Carlos Saba: 00:16:58

Beautiful Stitches Hands manifesto thing.

Carlos Saba: 00:17:01

So yeah it's been an amazing transformation.

Carlos Saba: 00:17:04

And it's and it's having people reflect things back to you or challenge you.

Carlos Saba: 00:17:09

Amelia said to me on our very, very first call "You need to stop hiding

Carlos Saba: 00:17:14

behind your writing." I remember going, "Oh, gosh, what was that?" But

Carlos Saba: 00:17:19

it was just- … it was so wonderful to have- We've only just met.

Carlos Saba: 00:17:24

It was so wonderful to have somebody have listened to everything I said, and

Carlos Saba: 00:17:28

then just come out with a completely different perspective that had me thinking

Carlos Saba: 00:17:32

in a different way about my business.

Carlos Saba: 00:17:34

And we said on our call this afternoon, we have learnt to trust each other so

Carlos Saba: 00:17:39

much that when somebody says something like that, it doesn't feel like an attack.

Carlos Saba: 00:17:43

It feels like a support and a love, and we want everybody to do well.

Carlos Saba: 00:17:48

So how do we nurture that and support that?

Carlos Saba: 00:17:50

So

Carlos Saba: 00:17:53

Beautiful.

Carlos Saba: 00:17:53

Wow.

Carlos Saba: 00:17:54

Thank you, Ann-Marie.

Carlos Saba: 00:17:55

I really appreciate that.

Carlos Saba: 00:17:57

Desiree, I would love to hear from you.

Desiree Adkins: 00:18:01

So I am based in New Jersey, in the United States,

Desiree Adkins: 00:18:05

and I am a coach known as the Rebelliously Responsible Coach.

Desiree Adkins: 00:18:09

And so, quick grasp on what I do, helping people-pleasers please themselves.

Desiree Adkins: 00:18:14

But specifically folks that are highly sensitive and are navigating codependency.

Desiree Adkins: 00:18:18

So, um, I think, Laurence popped into my inbox right on time because I was

Desiree Adkins: 00:18:24

at this I kinda felt like I was at the edge of my rope with my business,

Desiree Adkins: 00:18:29

and I had taken some time to go back to school put group work on the back

Desiree Adkins: 00:18:33

burner, was just doing one-on-one.

Desiree Adkins: 00:18:34

And so then when I came back to my business, I was like, "Okay, I'll

Desiree Adkins: 00:18:37

totally just flow back into this and it'll be great." It was not great.

Desiree Adkins: 00:18:41

And things I was trying to kinda put into action, I kept feeling either resistance

Desiree Adkins: 00:18:47

to doing those things or didn't quite launch the way that I wanted to launch.

Desiree Adkins: 00:18:50

And so, I got to the point where I was like maybe this

Desiree Adkins: 00:18:53

isn't for me anymore, right?

Desiree Adkins: 00:18:54

Maybe I need to give up my business." And that was really painful because

Desiree Adkins: 00:18:58

I had left a traditional workforce in 2007, so I'm like, "This is my baby.

Desiree Adkins: 00:19:03

This is the way that I stepped out into the world and said I'm resisting a

Desiree Adkins: 00:19:07

traditional way of working." And when I took the leap to join the program what

Desiree Adkins: 00:19:13

was really stand out for me is I was expecting, "Okay, I'm gonna set up this

Desiree Adkins: 00:19:18

call and I'm gonna speak with one of the group's coaches in this pyramid scheme,

Desiree Adkins: 00:19:22

and they're gonna sell me on this thing."

Desiree Adkins: 00:19:25

And so when Laurence popped up on the Zoom, I was like, "Oh,

Desiree Adkins: 00:19:28

shit. Okay, here we go," right?

Desiree Adkins: 00:19:30

This is the guy who emailed me.

Desiree Adkins: 00:19:32

But it was such a- truth-telling conversation a space where I could

Desiree Adkins: 00:19:37

get really honest about my business and say, "I don't know what my next

Desiree Adkins: 00:19:41

steps are, but I don't wanna let this go, and so can this be the bridge?"

Desiree Adkins: 00:19:46

And I remember, I think for the first several weeks I was just excited to be

Desiree Adkins: 00:19:51

in a space with other brilliant minds that are struggling with something.

Desiree Adkins: 00:19:56

That was really freeing for me to see like, everybody

Desiree Adkins: 00:19:59

does not have it figured out.

Desiree Adkins: 00:20:00

What you see that's polished and pretty on the internet, like behind

Desiree Adkins: 00:20:05

the scenes right, folks are just like, "I don't know what to write.

Desiree Adkins: 00:20:07

I can't write.

Desiree Adkins: 00:20:08

I don't know what to offer." All these different things.

Desiree Adkins: 00:20:10

And so, what I think it did was it gave me permission to tell the truth

Desiree Adkins: 00:20:16

to my community, but also to myself that the previous iteration of my

Desiree Adkins: 00:20:22

business wasn't, it wasn't me anymore.

Desiree Adkins: 00:20:26

But I didn't know who I am now, and so then what do I put out there?

Desiree Adkins: 00:20:30

What do I what do I offer folks?

Desiree Adkins: 00:20:32

And so the Satir Change Model that was groundbreaking for me because

Desiree Adkins: 00:20:37

it really helped me to see where in that process I was and then

Desiree Adkins: 00:20:43

where I could support other people.

Desiree Adkins: 00:20:46

And I was in the chaos.

Desiree Adkins: 00:20:47

And so it was so interesting when we would get on buddy calls and I would be

Desiree Adkins: 00:20:52

like "Well, who's feeling distressed?"

Desiree Adkins: 00:20:55

Who's this?

Desiree Adkins: 00:20:55

Who's got something going on?

Desiree Adkins: 00:20:56

Like, I was just seeking out people in the chaos.

Desiree Adkins: 00:20:59

And at the time I didn't realize what was happening, but that is where I

Desiree Adkins: 00:21:04

feel most at home and comfortable.

Desiree Adkins: 00:21:06

And I remember being on a group call and Lana said, "It sounds like you're

Desiree Adkins: 00:21:11

the settled body that settles bodies."

Desiree Adkins: 00:21:14

And I was just slain.

Desiree Adkins: 00:21:17

Like, I was like, "Okay, Lana." Um, And I think what it meant for

Desiree Adkins: 00:21:22

me was- It takes one to know one.

Desiree Adkins: 00:21:25

Absolutely.

Desiree Adkins: 00:21:26

What it meant for me was that I did not need any additional business practices

Desiree Adkins: 00:21:34

or I, I don't even wanna necessarily say tools, but I didn't necessarily

Desiree Adkins: 00:21:38

need to invest in someone else's idea of what makes business successful.

Desiree Adkins: 00:21:43

What I needed to do was lean into who I already was and offer that,

Desiree Adkins: 00:21:48

and trust that people who value that, they're gonna gravitate to me.

Desiree Adkins: 00:21:54

I'm going to see them and be unashamed and courageous about saying, "Hey, can

Desiree Adkins: 00:21:59

I just sit with you with this? You have the magic answers? Nope, but I can sit

Desiree Adkins: 00:22:04

with you and let's see what comes up."

Desiree Adkins: 00:22:06

And so I think for me the program has been that I hit a wall, and where

Desiree Adkins: 00:22:11

other programs might say, "Okay.

Desiree Adkins: 00:22:13

Well, We got the tools.

Desiree Adkins: 00:22:14

Let's take a jackhammer to this wall," this was like, "Let's

Desiree Adkins: 00:22:18

just, let's be with the wall.

Desiree Adkins: 00:22:21

You wanna go around it?

Desiree Adkins: 00:22:22

You wanna go over it?

Desiree Adkins: 00:22:22

Do you want to turn around and go in a completely opposite direction?"

Desiree Adkins: 00:22:26

So this opportunity to check in with my myself, say, "Des, what do you need?

Desiree Adkins: 00:22:31

What do you want?" And specifically, I just I wanna say this, I wanna call

Desiree Adkins: 00:22:35

it out, because we can see everyone's faces as a Black person in the United

Desiree Adkins: 00:22:40

States, I am very skeptical about spaces that promise connection and acceptance.

Desiree Adkins: 00:22:49

I'm gonna have tears, and that's okay.

Desiree Adkins: 00:22:51

Um, I feel so supported and resourced in this group, and these are just, they're

Desiree Adkins: 00:23:02

people I, I, I'm, I'm taking with me.

Desiree Adkins: 00:23:04

Not I wanna take with me.

Desiree Adkins: 00:23:05

I'm taking with me.

Desiree Adkins: 00:23:06

I'm getting on folks' calendars months in advance- … 'cause I'm like, "I

Desiree Adkins: 00:23:10

don't want us to lose our connection."

Desiree Adkins: 00:23:13

And so, um, I think it's such a lesson in, one, knowing that you

Desiree Adkins: 00:23:18

don't have to do it by yourself, but two, you may find some of your

Desiree Adkins: 00:23:22

closest comrades in unexpected places, and so taking the risk is worth it.

Desiree Adkins: 00:23:28

And yeah.

Laurence McCahill: 00:23:30

Oh.

Laurence McCahill: 00:23:30

Yeah.

Desiree Adkins: 00:23:31

Yeah.

Laurence McCahill: 00:23:33

Thank you, guys.

Laurence McCahill: 00:23:34

I love you

Desiree Adkins: 00:23:34

guys.

Laurence McCahill: 00:23:36

And I thought Lana was the one that made us

Laurence McCahill: 00:23:37

all cry, but you're the one now.

Laurence McCahill: 00:23:40

You got a, a sister from another mister.

Laurence McCahill: 00:23:43

Um, I remember the first email I got from you was like, "I said to my sister

Laurence McCahill: 00:23:47

I found my people," and that just… I shared it with Carlos and Lana 'cause

Laurence McCahill: 00:23:50

that was… yeah, that means the world.

Laurence McCahill: 00:23:52

To to feel that and to then experience it was, Yeah is really why we do this really.

Laurence McCahill: 00:23:58

Thank you.

Carlos Saba: 00:24:01

Yeah.

Carlos Saba: 00:24:01

I'm super grateful for your honesty, your vulnerability,

Carlos Saba: 00:24:05

Desiree, and to just share that.

Carlos Saba: 00:24:07

It's, It's not something that you can shout about easily 'cause it's

Carlos Saba: 00:24:11

on- only something you can feel.

Carlos Saba: 00:24:13

And I'm… Yeah, I'm really grateful for you sharing that.

Carlos Saba: 00:24:16

I think everyone here is just feeling more connected because of that.

Carlos Saba: 00:24:19

Yeah, I can see the tears, and we're like, "Oh, okay.

Carlos Saba: 00:24:23

Breath.

Carlos Saba: 00:24:25

Settle.

Carlos Saba: 00:24:27

Okay.

Carlos Saba: 00:24:29

I'm gonna move us all over to Yorick

Jorik Elferink: 00:24:32

Yeah.

Jorik Elferink: 00:24:33

Thank you.

Jorik Elferink: 00:24:34

I'm based in Amsterdam, in the Netherlands, and Laurence actually

Jorik Elferink: 00:24:39

didn't pop up in my email, but he popped up on a mountain in Norway.

Laurence McCahill: 00:24:44

We- I was with you.

Laurence McCahill: 00:24:44

I didn't just appear- … out of nowhere.

Jorik Elferink: 00:24:47

That's true.

Jorik Elferink: 00:24:48

That's true.

Jorik Elferink: 00:24:49

We went to Norway, and we had a morning hike up a mountain, and had a very

Jorik Elferink: 00:24:54

lovely conversation, sharing that I was feeling quite stuck and stagnant

Jorik Elferink: 00:25:01

in in the last couple years going through the same motions, doing the

Jorik Elferink: 00:25:06

same thing over and over again, not really feeling I was learning um, uh,

Jorik Elferink: 00:25:11

anything new about myself or the work.

Jorik Elferink: 00:25:14

And through that conversation with Laurence, I felt an energy that

Jorik Elferink: 00:25:19

I had only felt one time before.

Jorik Elferink: 00:25:21

And that's also when I jumped headlong into something new is when I joined

Jorik Elferink: 00:25:27

Hyper Island about 10 years ago now.

Jorik Elferink: 00:25:31

And I've been working in education and facilitation and

Jorik Elferink: 00:25:35

as a design coach for 10 years.

Jorik Elferink: 00:25:37

And I was a bit done with it getting very drained with what I was doing, with myself

Jorik Elferink: 00:25:43

mainly, like feeling stagnant, not knowing where I was going, but just keep going.

Jorik Elferink: 00:25:48

And talking to Laurence on that mountain actually made me realize

Jorik Elferink: 00:25:52

that I was ready for something new.

Jorik Elferink: 00:25:55

I had sat with the, the stagnant stuck self for a bit too long maybe,

Jorik Elferink: 00:26:02

but there were ways to move forward.

Jorik Elferink: 00:26:04

And the the reason why we were in Norway is because we were with a lovely group

Jorik Elferink: 00:26:09

of people, Firekeepers Collective uh, Lana and uh, Kai and Rachel, who I know

Jorik Elferink: 00:26:14

are in the chat, in the crowd as well.

Jorik Elferink: 00:26:17

We were there because we were setting up something new, so it was uh, like

Jorik Elferink: 00:26:20

a retreat in Norway, and I was already stepping into the motions of, okay,

Jorik Elferink: 00:26:25

I'm gonna do something new, but what I was becoming was still very unclear.

Jorik Elferink: 00:26:31

So it felt like the right moment for me to join the program, which started, I think

Jorik Elferink: 00:26:36

the week after we got back from Norway.

Jorik Elferink: 00:26:39

So within one week, I was like, "Yes, I feel energy, I feel momentum. Something

Jorik Elferink: 00:26:45

is on the horizon. I can't see it just yet, but I know that this feeling in the

Jorik Elferink: 00:26:50

past led me to something beautiful so I'm just gonna follow this feeling now."

Jorik Elferink: 00:26:55

So I signed up have my lovely buddy group with also Amelia and Ann-Marie part of it.

Jorik Elferink: 00:27:03

And I can just- Only repeat what everyone so far has been sharing about this

Jorik Elferink: 00:27:10

support, the lovely group of people around me holding up the mirror when I,

Jorik Elferink: 00:27:15

whenever I needed it whenever I snuck back into "Oh, yeah, but I'm just gonna

Jorik Elferink: 00:27:20

do the same old thing again," because that's what made money in the past,

Jorik Elferink: 00:27:23

but it's not what's making me happy.

Jorik Elferink: 00:27:26

People help me see this like, "Oh, but that's not where you wanna go.

Jorik Elferink: 00:27:30

I think you are very like, uh, a good listener.

Jorik Elferink: 00:27:34

You're, like, good at coaching.

Jorik Elferink: 00:27:36

You're good with people.

Jorik Elferink: 00:27:37

You're playful.

Jorik Elferink: 00:27:38

Go follow that.

Jorik Elferink: 00:27:39

Go follow that." So that was really the support that I needed and that

Jorik Elferink: 00:27:43

helped me get to a new direction.

Jorik Elferink: 00:27:46

And I think there was… If we really talk about the moment of becoming for me in the

Jorik Elferink: 00:27:52

program, was at the start of this year.

Jorik Elferink: 00:27:54

I uh, had a full-on breakdown in a call with Desiree.

Jorik Elferink: 00:27:58

Uh, It was our first call that we actually met and spoke one-to-one,

Jorik Elferink: 00:28:03

and I just, I felt so lost and stuck still, and it's like the new

Jorik Elferink: 00:28:07

year stretching out in front of me.

Jorik Elferink: 00:28:08

It's like, "Oh, why do I still not know where I'm going?" But just

Jorik Elferink: 00:28:12

the, the love and support that I got from Des in that moment.

Jorik Elferink: 00:28:16

An hour later, I had a call with Jace, and the same thing.

Jorik Elferink: 00:28:21

The next day, I had a call with Becky the-- and Rachel.

Jorik Elferink: 00:28:24

So, like, In the span of two days, I went from complete chaos, complete

Jorik Elferink: 00:28:28

loss uh, it's like, I don't know why I'm doing this to like, oh, actually

Jorik Elferink: 00:28:34

set this ego aside for a little bit.

Jorik Elferink: 00:28:36

Let's not think about money for a little bit, and actually think

Jorik Elferink: 00:28:40

about what do I need in this moment.

Jorik Elferink: 00:28:42

And that support was so helpful that I did come out of that with way more clarity.

Jorik Elferink: 00:28:47

And it would have been-- wouldn't have been possible without the support of this

Jorik Elferink: 00:28:51

group and all the coaches and everyone in the program which led me to…

Jorik Elferink: 00:28:57

i'm… This is the mic coming out to to repeat what Amelia was talking about.

Jorik Elferink: 00:29:02

It's like I am a coach.

Jorik Elferink: 00:29:03

I am a creative clarity coach, and that's what I'm doing.

Jorik Elferink: 00:29:07

I've been shying away from coaching for a long time.

Jorik Elferink: 00:29:10

I've been doing group coaching and teaching forever, but I just

Jorik Elferink: 00:29:14

thought, "Oh, yeah I talk to friends when they need someone to listen."

Lana Jelenjev: 00:29:19

Yeah,

Jorik Elferink: 00:29:19

that's coaching.

Jorik Elferink: 00:29:20

Maybe I should just do coaching.

Jorik Elferink: 00:29:22

And I'm doing that now, so that's where I'm going, and that's… I'm

Jorik Elferink: 00:29:25

very excited about that, and I'm very excited about sharing that as well.

Carlos Saba: 00:29:29

Wonderful.

Carlos Saba: 00:29:31

Thank you.

Carlos Saba: 00:29:32

Thank you, Jorik.

Carlos Saba: 00:29:32

Really appreciate that.

Carlos Saba: 00:29:34

Appreciate you coming on and both, yeah, feeling that I'm outing myself experience-

Carlos Saba: 00:29:40

and, And running with it anyway.

Carlos Saba: 00:29:43

Um- And you said the

Laurence McCahill: 00:29:43

C-word.

Laurence McCahill: 00:29:45

Yeah.

Laurence McCahill: 00:29:45

That C-word, not the other C-word.

Carlos Saba: 00:29:49

and I'm gonna invite Jace.

Carlos Saba: 00:29:50

Jace please let us know where you are.

Carlos Saba: 00:29:53

Describe a bit more about the work you're doing right now and

Carlos Saba: 00:29:56

your own stories of becoming.

Jace Malz: 00:29:59

Okay.

Jace Malz: 00:30:01

Thank you.

Jace Malz: 00:30:02

Hi, everybody.

Jace Malz: 00:30:03

My name's Jace Malz.

Jace Malz: 00:30:04

I am in Montreal, Quebec, in Canada.

Jace Malz: 00:30:08

It is not even 8:00 AM yet, but I've gotten to not only wake up

Jace Malz: 00:30:13

from hearing everybody, but this is a great way to start the day.

Carlos Saba: 00:30:17

Cool.

Carlos Saba: 00:30:18

So how has your journey of becoming evolved?

Jace Malz: 00:30:24

If I'm honest, it hasn't been easy.

Jace Malz: 00:30:27

It's been like a as a queer and trans neurodiverse human,

Jace Malz: 00:30:34

I feel like I can't believe how many times I've had to come out.

Jace Malz: 00:30:40

And um, and I guess it's like I'm, I guess I'm an expert at it now.

Jace Malz: 00:30:45

But when I joined the program, I was really suffering.

Jace Malz: 00:30:48

I started my company Inbo 10 years ago, and ironically, it was

Jace Malz: 00:30:55

originally called Inward Bound.

Jace Malz: 00:30:58

And uh, and I really had … I was so committed to the vision

Jace Malz: 00:31:03

of building this agency.

Jace Malz: 00:31:05

I saw t- I could see it in my mind, and I was like, no matter what worked or didn't

Jace Malz: 00:31:11

work or whatever failures I hit, I was like, "Okay, I'm g- I'm getting right back

Jace Malz: 00:31:17

up, and I'm gonna continue working at it."

Jace Malz: 00:31:20

And, with COVID or health issues or transitioning or different

Jace Malz: 00:31:24

things I, I got burnt out, and I was doing all of it alone.

Jace Malz: 00:31:29

And uh, you know, I c- I guess I said yes to this program I think a, the,

Jace Malz: 00:31:35

a few days before it started, and I felt really … I didn't even know

Jace Malz: 00:31:39

what I was gonna get from it, but I was really questioning everything

Jace Malz: 00:31:45

and reacting from a place of fear.

Jace Malz: 00:31:48

So within the chaos storm, really like sh- what should I do?

Jace Malz: 00:31:53

Whatever I'm doing it like, I can't handle the feast and famine cycles anymore.

Jace Malz: 00:32:00

I really love the work that I do with clients, so like, as a facilitator,

Jace Malz: 00:32:05

learning designer, passionate about the work, but I was spending all

Jace Malz: 00:32:09

my energy trying to build this agency and had, had burnt out.

Jace Malz: 00:32:15

So, Joining the program, I feel like the first two or three months,

Jace Malz: 00:32:20

I was struggling through it.

Jace Malz: 00:32:21

And for me, the p- turning point was really when we did the values work.

Jace Malz: 00:32:26

And I had a real epiphany where, I do all this values work with organizations

Jace Malz: 00:32:32

and help them translate their values into behaviors, but I think it's funny that

Jace Malz: 00:32:36

I'm the last one to do it for myself.

Jace Malz: 00:32:39

And I realized that my values had changed over 10 years, the

Jace Malz: 00:32:46

order, the priority of my values.

Jace Malz: 00:32:48

So like, when I first started, my, my values were freedom and joy.

Jace Malz: 00:32:52

And integrity and authenticity got to the top.

Jace Malz: 00:32:56

But I didn't know when that happened in the 10 years.

Jace Malz: 00:32:59

But in checking in on it and realizing like, yeah, there's a lot of different

Jace Malz: 00:33:04

types of work I can do, but what are the things that give me energy?

Jace Malz: 00:33:09

Where do I shine?

Jace Malz: 00:33:11

And after all these years of learning, like who am I and what do I wanna offer?

Jace Malz: 00:33:15

And so in a way, I felt like I was protected behind this agency brand and

Jace Malz: 00:33:22

kind of hiding or hiding within it.

Jace Malz: 00:33:26

And so this program has really allowed me to connect with who

Jace Malz: 00:33:30

I am now and, commit to what is the work I really am here to do.

Jace Malz: 00:33:39

And my God, it's vulnerable.

Jace Malz: 00:33:42

You know, It's like you kind of think of oh, I just want to figure it out, and

Jace Malz: 00:33:45

then I did, and now I'm like, oh my God, now I need to be honest and share who

Jace Malz: 00:33:52

I am and what I do and what I believe.

Jace Malz: 00:33:55

And I'm gonna get more used to it but it's at the heart, you know, of like,

Jace Malz: 00:34:01

um, I, I do team coaching, and I think that for a long time I was like, "Who am

Jace Malz: 00:34:08

I to stand in a space of senior leaders and help them work better together?"

Jace Malz: 00:34:15

And so I was always doing like a million courses and certification.

Jace Malz: 00:34:20

Like, I have so many certifications.

Jace Malz: 00:34:22

And I was just like never feeling ready, and this program helped me to just build

Jace Malz: 00:34:28

the confidence and get the feedback and see like, oh like, I'm really

Jace Malz: 00:34:33

good at this, but also I really care.

Jace Malz: 00:34:37

My values are in alignment.

Jace Malz: 00:34:39

I've gotten the experience.

Jace Malz: 00:34:40

I have the traction to do this work.

Jace Malz: 00:34:44

So, Yeah, like at the beginning of the program I was like, "Okay, I'm

Jace Malz: 00:34:47

gonna get a job and work internally.

Jace Malz: 00:34:50

I'm tired." And now I'm like, "Oh, I'm just gonna be me and focus on

Jace Malz: 00:34:57

the work that I really love that energizes me and aligns with my values."

Jace Malz: 00:35:01

So I guess this program worked.

Carlos Saba: 00:35:04

Worked it, mate.

Carlos Saba: 00:35:08

Awesome.

Carlos Saba: 00:35:09

Thank you, Jace.

Carlos Saba: 00:35:09

Thank you,

Laurence McCahill: 00:35:09

Jace.

Laurence McCahill: 00:35:10

Really

Carlos Saba: 00:35:10

appreciate, and yeah, y- there's definitely appreciation in

Carlos Saba: 00:35:13

the chat for your vulnerability and your honesty and what it's been like.

Carlos Saba: 00:35:17

And for-

Laurence McCahill: 00:35:17

Yeah, you messaged the other day, didn't you, saying, "I

Laurence McCahill: 00:35:19

think I've got a vulnerability hangover."

Carlos Saba: 00:35:23

Gosh, what's gonna happen- … after this call, then?

Laurence McCahill: 00:35:25

I know.

Laurence McCahill: 00:35:26

Exactly.

Laurence McCahill: 00:35:26

I'm,

Jace Malz: 00:35:27

I'm expecting another vulnerability hangover.

Laurence McCahill: 00:35:30

But I'll have support.

Laurence McCahill: 00:35:30

We'll do some buddy group after this.

Laurence McCahill: 00:35:32

Yeah.

Jace Malz: 00:35:32

I'll have support 'cause we have a buddy call, so I'll be okay.

Carlos Saba: 00:35:36

Good.

Carlos Saba: 00:35:36

Thank you.

Carlos Saba: 00:35:39

And last, but by no means least, Simon, are you there for us?

Simon Bird: 00:35:45

Yeah, I'm ready.

Simon Bird: 00:35:46

I'm Simon.

Simon Bird: 00:35:47

I'm based in the UK, in Surrey, just outside London, and what

Simon Bird: 00:35:53

brought me here was a, a complete mess of my own making, right?

Simon Bird: 00:35:58

And the only thing I could say with any confidence about um, or two things

Simon Bird: 00:36:02

I could have said coming into this program about what I had been, which

Simon Bird: 00:36:06

was a global marketing director in a very large organization, and somebody

Simon Bird: 00:36:10

who's been trying to run his own business 'cause I felt stagnant in

Simon Bird: 00:36:13

the first thing, and then wanting to get out and do something different.

Simon Bird: 00:36:17

I felt a complete failure at doing my own thing and I realized that

Simon Bird: 00:36:22

I was probably having done this course, a recovering high achiever.

Simon Bird: 00:36:26

So that's what I can say with confidence having, having done all this.

Simon Bird: 00:36:31

So I'll describe the mess a bit, I think.

Simon Bird: 00:36:33

And I'm a bit reluctant to do it in front of someone who's got a PhD in physics,

Simon Bird: 00:36:36

but I'm gonna talk a little bit about inertia, Carlos, if I can, and correct me

Simon Bird: 00:36:39

if I start to, show my ignorance at that.

Simon Bird: 00:36:42

But basically, I'm in huge resistance that I was experiencing.

Simon Bird: 00:36:46

So I was thinking, "Yeah, I can run a business.

Simon Bird: 00:36:49

Course I can.

Simon Bird: 00:36:49

I've done this huge job for a long time, been very capable at it, so why

Simon Bird: 00:36:54

can't I run this small little place where there's only me to control?

Simon Bird: 00:36:58

There's only a few clients that I'm managing.

Simon Bird: 00:37:01

Why am I feeling old, burnt out, tired, bored, more stagnant more frustrated,

Simon Bird: 00:37:07

less income?" And I've thrown away all the extrinsic rewards for the job that I

Simon Bird: 00:37:13

had before, you know, the, the platinum status on airlines, the gold cards, the

Simon Bird: 00:37:18

free nights in hotels, all of that stuff.

Simon Bird: 00:37:20

Yeah, so I was very- In a very bad place, I would say.

Simon Bird: 00:37:24

I could get myself out of it by saying, "Pull yourself together, get on with

Simon Bird: 00:37:28

it," but I couldn't maintain it.

Simon Bird: 00:37:31

I could drive myself forward, push myself into action, but

Simon Bird: 00:37:35

I couldn't keep that going.

Simon Bird: 00:37:36

So this, this feeling of resistance and rubbing up all the time yeah,

Simon Bird: 00:37:40

effectively I felt that all I'd done was recreate what I did in my previous job

Simon Bird: 00:37:46

in a new setting and got less for it.

Simon Bird: 00:37:48

Um, And that for me and my family and this sort of nagging high achiever in the

Simon Bird: 00:37:53

back of my head was really undermining me and my values and how I looked at myself.

Simon Bird: 00:37:58

And fundamentally saying to myself, you know, "The last 35 years of your

Simon Bird: 00:38:03

life have been rubbish because apart from your family, what have you done?

Simon Bird: 00:38:06

What have you achieved?

Simon Bird: 00:38:07

There's nothing there.

Simon Bird: 00:38:08

It's no substance to it." So If you like a dark night of the soul,

Simon Bird: 00:38:14

for me really, that intensified to the point where I turned 60 in June

Simon Bird: 00:38:19

last year, and I had a great time.

Simon Bird: 00:38:22

I thought, "Bugger it, I'm gonna celebrate this turning point in my life."

Simon Bird: 00:38:27

And then end of the summer I thought, "Yeah, but what am I gonna do about it?

Simon Bird: 00:38:31

That was very nice sitting in the sun in France, but what am I gonna do

Simon Bird: 00:38:34

about this?" And I think, and this is where you'll correct me on the physics

Simon Bird: 00:38:38

thing, 'cause now I'm gonna switch to chemistry, I needed a catalyst.

Simon Bird: 00:38:40

I needed a catalyst of some kind.

Simon Bird: 00:38:43

Spot the guy who's got a degree in history.

Simon Bird: 00:38:45

I needed something, something to just shake me up a bit, and I, I thought I'd

Simon Bird: 00:38:50

found a course, and being a high achiever I thought, "Oh, I am good at courses.

Simon Bird: 00:38:54

I can do that." How wrong was I? I have not found a course. And I looked at it,

Simon Bird: 00:38:59

I thought, "Yeah, there's four modules.

Simon Bird: 00:39:00

They look like you work through them and you do this, and you come

Simon Bird: 00:39:02

out and you come up with an answer, and you get, you get marked," in

Simon Bird: 00:39:06

inverted commas, along the way.

Simon Bird: 00:39:08

"And, yeah, this will be right up my street, and I'll throw myself

Simon Bird: 00:39:11

at this, and this will help me."

Simon Bird: 00:39:14

It has helped me completely, but it's not a course.

Simon Bird: 00:39:17

And at times that, that's worried me.

Simon Bird: 00:39:19

At times that's thrown me.

Simon Bird: 00:39:20

At times that has been difficult for me because it is a learning process and it's

Simon Bird: 00:39:26

far more… It's extremely thoughtful.

Simon Bird: 00:39:28

It's extremely deep.

Simon Bird: 00:39:29

It exposes your vulnerabilities, as everybody's spoken about.

Simon Bird: 00:39:33

Whatever they are, they'll come out.

Simon Bird: 00:39:35

And my biggest one I had to face on day one, which was

Simon Bird: 00:39:38

talking openly to strangers.

Simon Bird: 00:39:39

I hate it.

Simon Bird: 00:39:41

I hate going into places and meeting new people.

Simon Bird: 00:39:44

I like establishing relationships, but I like it to be slow

Simon Bird: 00:39:47

and natural and one-to-one.

Simon Bird: 00:39:49

And then I will open up.

Simon Bird: 00:39:51

So the having to do it on day one w- with new people was extremely hard

Simon Bird: 00:39:56

but thankfully I got placed in Lana's group and as we've heard already about

Simon Bird: 00:40:01

her energy that really is helpful.

Simon Bird: 00:40:04

What am I becoming?

Simon Bird: 00:40:06

Can I say younger?

Simon Bird: 00:40:08

Because I actually feel I'm going back to my 21-year-old self, which

Simon Bird: 00:40:13

is a real gift when you're this age.

Simon Bird: 00:40:15

I feel I'm curious again.

Simon Bird: 00:40:17

I'm intellectually curious.

Simon Bird: 00:40:19

I'm curious about people again, whereas I thought, "Yeah, I've met all the

Simon Bird: 00:40:23

people that I can meet in the world. But what am I gonna learn here?" Not here

Simon Bird: 00:40:27

in this group but in life in general.

Simon Bird: 00:40:29

What are the possibilities opening up for me?

Simon Bird: 00:40:31

Can you imagine saying that at my age and feeling it?

Simon Bird: 00:40:37

Sorry, I have to take a breath.

Simon Bird: 00:40:37

My moment to take a breath.

Simon Bird: 00:40:40

Um, So yeah, I can, I can put my hand on my heart now and say that I am an

Simon Bird: 00:40:46

artist, I am a writer, most definitely.

Simon Bird: 00:40:47

That's so core to my being that I can't escape it.

Simon Bird: 00:40:50

There you go, Lana.

Simon Bird: 00:40:51

I can see her smiling.

Simon Bird: 00:40:52

Um, But I'm also a thinking partner, a guide.

Simon Bird: 00:40:56

I can't lose my intellectual side.

Simon Bird: 00:40:59

I want to use my experience that I've gained in life.

Simon Bird: 00:41:02

And I, oddly, what this course has sorry, program, has shown me is I

Simon Bird: 00:41:08

wanna use it to help other people.

Simon Bird: 00:41:10

which I hadn't expected.

Simon Bird: 00:41:12

I had not expected at all.

Simon Bird: 00:41:13

I've been very much in the consultant space.

Simon Bird: 00:41:16

You know, I'll do the thinking for you and I'll tell you what the answer is,

Simon Bird: 00:41:19

and that had burnt me out and I think what I am now more is in the coach space.

Simon Bird: 00:41:25

And bit of a dreaded word, I hate the word coach, but yeah, it's right.

Simon Bird: 00:41:30

It's a, It's a quick way to describe.

Simon Bird: 00:41:32

Um, So I'm a thinking partner and a guide.

Simon Bird: 00:41:34

How about that?

Simon Bird: 00:41:35

So I help people, this is where I'm, I'm being called um, helping people

Simon Bird: 00:41:39

to find their direction, particularly those who are in my stage of life

Simon Bird: 00:41:43

and think that's it, isn't it?

Simon Bird: 00:41:45

What's… Golf, painting, and grandchildren beckon, and we'll just

Simon Bird: 00:41:50

have to settle for that." No, you don't.

Simon Bird: 00:41:51

So that's my story.

Carlos Saba: 00:41:55

Wow.

Carlos Saba: 00:41:56

Wow.

Carlos Saba: 00:41:57

Thank you.

Carlos Saba: 00:41:58

I just thank you for that new value proposition statement for the program.

Carlos Saba: 00:42:02

This is a longevity, youth-building- Yeah … program.

Carlos Saba: 00:42:06

I

Laurence McCahill: 00:42:06

arrived feeling 60, now I feel 21.

Laurence McCahill: 00:42:09

I'm now going to nightclubs again,

Carlos Saba: 00:42:10

we will take years off you.

Carlos Saba: 00:42:12

Just spend weeks.

Carlos Saba: 00:42:15

Thank you.

Carlos Saba: 00:42:16

Thank you so much.

Carlos Saba: 00:42:16

And, You're welcome

Carlos Saba: 00:42:17

Triple A-star for the science, so you get, you got the grade.

Carlos Saba: 00:42:22

Very good.

Carlos Saba: 00:42:22

Thank you very much.

Laurence McCahill: 00:42:23

We'll send you a certificate next week on completion-

Laurence McCahill: 00:42:25

… of the program, course, whatever it is.

Carlos Saba: 00:42:30

That is wonderful.

Carlos Saba: 00:42:31

Thank you.

Carlos Saba: 00:42:32

We're drawing slowly to a close.

Carlos Saba: 00:42:34

If there are any questions in the chat, we would love to answer them.

Carlos Saba: 00:42:39

There was something that I just picked out.

Carlos Saba: 00:42:41

basically it was for Jace from Monica, and it was about the moment, the trigger

Carlos Saba: 00:42:47

that was felt, the alignment between values and business started to happen.

Carlos Saba: 00:42:51

And Jace shared in the chat about The Purpose Playbook and how that helped.

Laurence McCahill: 00:42:56

Actually Jace, if you don't mind me say- saying, I remember you

Laurence McCahill: 00:42:59

talking about how you almost started to action on this straight away just in like

Laurence McCahill: 00:43:02

rather than trying to build something new or imagine a new future, to start to

Laurence McCahill: 00:43:07

in the conversations in your work, in your meetings, to start to live some

Laurence McCahill: 00:43:11

of this stuff through boundaries, through Yeah … transparency really.

Laurence McCahill: 00:43:14

just maybe share that 'cause I found that really powerful in terms of how

Laurence McCahill: 00:43:16

do you, like you said, how do you live this rather than just laminate it?

Jace Malz: 00:43:19

Yeah.

Jace Malz: 00:43:19

I put the, my values on a Post-it on my wall and there was a f- few instances

Jace Malz: 00:43:27

where one was like a new request that a client had and I like promised myself

Jace Malz: 00:43:33

to listen to my, my gut first and go with, and go for integrity over money.

Jace Malz: 00:43:42

And and so I said no, and I was like, "Ah," right after.

Jace Malz: 00:43:49

And then there was also two projects that I was in with clients and I was

Jace Malz: 00:43:54

able to get more honest about red flags that I saw, and with one of them

Jace Malz: 00:43:59

it was really funny, like the, they ended up doubling the project, and I

Jace Malz: 00:44:04

was like, "I'm ready to, I'm ready to lose the project and be honest," and

Jace Malz: 00:44:07

then instead the opposite happened.

Laurence McCahill: 00:44:12

So that's what I love because it's, there's … I think

Laurence McCahill: 00:44:16

you, you said and a lot of people say, and I find this too, is like

Laurence McCahill: 00:44:18

we're scared to make decisions based on our values and our needs because

Laurence McCahill: 00:44:21

we're, we don't know what's next, we don't know what's around the corner.

Laurence McCahill: 00:44:24

We think we're just saying no, but we don't know what we're saying yes to.

Laurence McCahill: 00:44:26

So that integrity to have those honest conversations for me is what

Laurence McCahill: 00:44:31

all of this stuff is all about.

Laurence McCahill: 00:44:32

Making decisions like day-to-day based on those things rather than just lofty goals.

Laurence McCahill: 00:44:38

So for me it's- It's- … a compass to- A compass … in my case, make decisions

Laurence McCahill: 00:44:42

and say yes and no to things, but also know your boundaries too, and that's what

Laurence McCahill: 00:44:47

I believe is important when we've got a million things we can do every day.

Laurence McCahill: 00:44:50

We never know which way to turn, so having something to guide us is so important.

Carlos Saba: 00:44:55

Thank you.

Carlos Saba: 00:44:57

Lana anything for you to add?

Lana Jelenjev: 00:44:59

Yeah.

Lana Jelenjev: 00:45:00

First let me just say thank you for sharing your voices

Lana Jelenjev: 00:45:04

and sharing your experiences.

Lana Jelenjev: 00:45:06

Yeah it's so touching to have this moment of just really harvesting, right?

Lana Jelenjev: 00:45:11

The, the, all the nuggets and wisdom that has happened throughout the program.

Lana Jelenjev: 00:45:17

And hopefully it re- ripples more into not just your work, but also in your life

Lana Jelenjev: 00:45:24

and also the people that you engage with.

Lana Jelenjev: 00:45:26

I know for those that are already just watching, they're already commenting

Lana Jelenjev: 00:45:31

how much of your vulnerability has a- and your openness has touched them.

Lana Jelenjev: 00:45:35

And yeah, this is the kind of work that really lights me up.

Lana Jelenjev: 00:45:39

And this is also why that these values and alignment i- is very crucial, right?

Lana Jelenjev: 00:45:45

Because when we are in this space of alignment then we also get to also notice

Lana Jelenjev: 00:45:51

where, boundaries is very important.

Lana Jelenjev: 00:45:53

And our agency how, how can we act in agency with ourselves in in spaces that

Lana Jelenjev: 00:45:59

might be also challenging, especially how the world is right now let's face it.

Lana Jelenjev: 00:46:04

Des, thank you for naming and sharing how your experience is as a Black

Lana Jelenjev: 00:46:08

woman being in different spaces.

Lana Jelenjev: 00:46:11

We know that the world is unraveling, and it's unraveling so fast um, that

Lana Jelenjev: 00:46:16

the way that we can only do that is when we are reclaiming ourselves.

Lana Jelenjev: 00:46:21

I know for myself that a lot of the narratives that I've carried over has

Lana Jelenjev: 00:46:26

been, cultural and ancestral narratives, and it took years, and it's still

Lana Jelenjev: 00:46:31

taking years to uncouple myself from old narratives to narratives that I would

Lana Jelenjev: 00:46:37

want to bring out in the world for myself.

Lana Jelenjev: 00:46:40

And this alignment piece really helps to take notice of, but, ah,

Lana Jelenjev: 00:46:45

but how would I want to show up?

Lana Jelenjev: 00:46:48

And I, I, I, for myself, I still remember that, that monumental time

Lana Jelenjev: 00:46:55

when that question came up for me.

Lana Jelenjev: 00:46:57

And I recall those moments of, like, whenever I have things that I have to

Lana Jelenjev: 00:47:02

decide on, I use that as my litmus test of, "Okay, will this, will this serve

Lana Jelenjev: 00:47:09

me in showing up for who I want to be?"

Lana Jelenjev: 00:47:13

And this, for me, became that.

Lana Jelenjev: 00:47:14

That I don't need, … How do I say this?

Lana Jelenjev: 00:47:16

I don't need a North Star because it's already inside of me, and that's the

Lana Jelenjev: 00:47:23

reclaiming, yeah that I find in this process of of attunement and alignment

Lana Jelenjev: 00:47:29

that we can have with ourselves, and how that would flow out with who

Lana Jelenjev: 00:47:33

we're engaging, with who, with what we're doing, with what we're saying.

Lana Jelenjev: 00:47:37

And hopefully become, the next generation of ancestors that we're proud of

Lana Jelenjev: 00:47:41

to be, and for the, you know, and because it's systematically that we're

Lana Jelenjev: 00:47:46

shifting the systems as well around us.

Carlos Saba: 00:47:51

Boom.

Carlos Saba: 00:47:52

Powerful work.

Carlos Saba: 00:47:53

Thank you, Lana.

Carlos Saba: 00:47:55

So we're gonna close off with something that is a bit of a ritual during our

Carlos Saba: 00:48:00

program and how we like to end is one word, to share one word that describes

Carlos Saba: 00:48:06

how we are leaving this conversation.

Carlos Saba: 00:48:09

Jace, how are you leaving this?

Carlos Saba: 00:48:11

Grateful.

Carlos Saba: 00:48:12

Grateful.

Carlos Saba: 00:48:13

Thank you, Jace.

Jorik Elferink: 00:48:16

Yorick?

Jorik Elferink: 00:48:16

Supported.

Carlos Saba: 00:48:18

Simon?

Simon Bird: 00:48:19

Relieved but happy.

Carlos Saba: 00:48:23

Ann-Marie?

Carlos Saba: 00:48:25

Ann-Marie Anderson-Mayes: Two words, deeply grateful.

Carlos Saba: 00:48:27

Des'ree?

Carlos Saba: 00:48:29

Ann-Marie Anderson-Mayes: Loved.

Carlos Saba: 00:48:31

Beautiful.

Carlos Saba: 00:48:33

Laurence, you get a few more words.

Carlos Saba: 00:48:34

Is it… Do you have any closing, parting thoughts?

Laurence McCahill: 00:48:37

Oh, so Jerry Springer style.

Laurence McCahill: 00:48:39

No, just I think vibrations was gonna be my word, just the collective effervescence

Laurence McCahill: 00:48:44

of a group of amazing people opening their hearts, and just the simplicity

Laurence McCahill: 00:48:50

of just coming back to ourselves really.

Laurence McCahill: 00:48:51

Like all of the stories feel like that.

Laurence McCahill: 00:48:53

It's like we wanna build something new, but actually all we're doing is

Laurence McCahill: 00:48:56

getting back to who we are, and that being okay, and that's the work, right?

Laurence McCahill: 00:49:00

To let the guard down and be authentic, and all the stuff we

Laurence McCahill: 00:49:03

hear about but not many people do.

Laurence McCahill: 00:49:05

So yeah, feeling very grateful for everyone.

Laurence McCahill: 00:49:07

Just…

Laurence McCahill: 00:49:08

Not just today, but for the, the journey you've all been on, 'cause

Laurence McCahill: 00:49:11

it's a lot easier to do the course, get the checkbox and do the simple stuff.

Laurence McCahill: 00:49:15

It's really hard to go deep.

Laurence McCahill: 00:49:16

So yeah, very grateful.

Carlos Saba: 00:49:18

Thank you.

Carlos Saba: 00:49:20

Lana, any other parting thoughts from you?

Lana Jelenjev: 00:49:23

I feel so nourished.

Lana Jelenjev: 00:49:25

Thank you.

Lana Jelenjev: 00:49:26

Thank you for all your stories.

Lana Jelenjev: 00:49:27

Thank you for all your openness.

Lana Jelenjev: 00:49:28

And in, in Filipino uh, we say uh, which is seeing ourselves

Lana Jelenjev: 00:49:35

in our shared humanity, and this is a very good example of that.

Lana Jelenjev: 00:49:39

So thank you.

Carlos Saba: 00:49:41

I am feeling inspired and energized.

Carlos Saba: 00:49:44

Lots of epiphanies happening for me from hearing your stories.

Carlos Saba: 00:49:47

I'm really grateful.

Carlos Saba: 00:49:49

We had this conversation this morning with my buddy group as part of the

Carlos Saba: 00:49:53

program, this idea of calling ourselves a coach, and how that word can, for some

Carlos Saba: 00:49:57

people, think, "Oh, what is that really?

Carlos Saba: 00:49:59

Is that really a job?

Carlos Saba: 00:50:01

Is that something that actually creates value?" The phrase that I

Carlos Saba: 00:50:04

like to use now is wisdom workers, I think, and it's going from this idea

Carlos Saba: 00:50:09

of "I know this," to actually, "I've lived this, and so I've got this."

Carlos Saba: 00:50:14

And so there's this real felt sense of I, "I've got you.

Carlos Saba: 00:50:18

I've got this.

Carlos Saba: 00:50:18

This is how it's gonna work," as opposed to, "I'll tell you what to do 'cause

Carlos Saba: 00:50:22

I've learned all the things." And that only comes from what I experienced,

Carlos Saba: 00:50:25

this whole process of becoming.

Carlos Saba: 00:50:27

We've lived our… an experience.

Carlos Saba: 00:50:28

We've gone through it.

Carlos Saba: 00:50:29

We know what it's like.

Carlos Saba: 00:50:30

We've got a felt sense of what's needed, as opposed to it's all theory,

Carlos Saba: 00:50:36

it's coming from a book, I'm gonna give you as it is from a program.

Carlos Saba: 00:50:39

And this is, I think, part of… What I'm getting from this is

Carlos Saba: 00:50:42

it's about the experience and about the people you're with.

Carlos Saba: 00:50:45

So thank you very much, all of you.

Carlos Saba: 00:50:48

Thank you everyone for listening to us for this past hour, and yeah, see you soon.

Carlos Saba: 00:50:52

Bye bye.

Laurence McCahill: 00:50:54

Take care everyone.

Laurence McCahill: 00:50:54

Thank you.

Laurence McCahill: 00:50:54

Bye.

Carlos Saba: 00:50:57

Thank you so much for getting to the end of this

Carlos Saba: 00:50:59

episode of the Happy MBA Podcast.

Carlos Saba: 00:51:02

You are now a true business hippie.

Carlos Saba: 00:51:06

This podcast was lovingly brought to you by the Happy Startup School, a

Carlos Saba: 00:51:09

modern antidote to business as usual.

Carlos Saba: 00:51:12

So if you're ready to reimagine your work and follow a new path that feels

Carlos Saba: 00:51:16

more aligned and alive, then visit us at thehappystartupschool.com, where you

Carlos Saba: 00:51:21

can find out more about our community, courses, events, and epic retreats.

Carlos Saba: 00:51:27

Thank you.