Episode 165
Making happy money
Carlos, Laurence, and Lana present the third session in their Vision Tribe Summit from February 2025.
This conversation will help you
- Develop a healthier relationship with money by understanding your personal money stories and how they affect your current attitudes
- Create multiple income streams through a product pyramid approach rather than solely relying on selling your time
- Price your services based on value rather than hourly rates, allowing you to better communicate the transformation you provide to clients
Links
Transcript
So we started off day one Monday, this idea of redefining success.
Speaker:What, like looking inwards in terms of what the success feel like rather than
Speaker:what success is in terms of achievement.
Speaker:and then, uh, yesterday we started talking about, alright, this idea
Speaker:of stories, stories of change.
Speaker:And this connects not only to understanding and cap sort of
Speaker:capturing what meaning there is in our work and our journeys, but also
Speaker:how do we wanna help other people.
Speaker:And with the program, it's also a pathway to trying to define what is
Speaker:the mission that you are on, what's the change you want to create, and
Speaker:how does that connect to your own journey of change and your stories of
Speaker:change and also change being this idea of transformation and transformation
Speaker:being at the core of your work.
Speaker:So for, for the people we wanna work with, for the way we work, what we wanna
Speaker:do is create beneficial transformation in the lives of the people that we serve.
Speaker:And we wanna make money because we've got mortgages to pay, we've got
Speaker:things we want and all that stuff.
Speaker:Uh, and one way to make money is to sell our time, which I know Lawrence
Speaker:and I are very familiar with.
Speaker:So what I thought we'd kick off with is this, this idea of, um.
Speaker:What is it about money, uh, that, uh, people struggle with?
Speaker:what are the challenges that we've observed that people come with,
Speaker:particularly on, on the programs, but also just generally in terms of coaching?
Speaker:So, Lawrence, Lana, is there anything that you'd like to raise to start us off?
Speaker:I just want to really put the, you know, the elephant in the
Speaker:room when we talk about money.
Speaker:I don't know how it is with you, but I can, I know for myself,
Speaker:I immediately get triggered.
Speaker:So there's so many things around money that, you know, that we've taken on,
Speaker:that we've experienced, and And this is also the part around the, the program
Speaker:that we work on, like unpacking, um, what's our relationship with money.
Speaker:So for me, it's also acknowledging that, hey, yes, navigating the
Speaker:topic around money can be stressful or conflicting to a lot of people.
Speaker:So be gentle, be compassionate to yourself, and know that you are
Speaker:not alone in this exploration.
Speaker:uh, well first off, this is a great way to get people to realize that we can think
Speaker:we're talking about the same thing, but we often are talking about, uh, different
Speaker:things, which is how we react when we hear that, like you said, hearing money going.
Speaker:Hm, can we talk about something else?
Speaker:You know, it's a taboo, isn't it?
Speaker:Often to talk about money, to talk about what we earn, to
Speaker:talk about what we wanna price.
Speaker:It can feel icky, especially for those that I think aren't
Speaker:solely motivated by money.
Speaker:You know, if it's not our main motivation, then it's like, well, that will come.
Speaker:We'll talk about that, or ignore it and hope it goes away.
Speaker:Um, for me, I think my relationship's changed over the years to it.
Speaker:So I, I actually like going towards it now rather than running away from it
Speaker:in terms of a topic, but also just, The concept of it, not, not trying to push
Speaker:it away, not trying to push money away, not, you know, charging a tiny bit.
Speaker:'cause I'm scared that someone won't like me.
Speaker:So not attaching my self worth to that, has been a sort of
Speaker:journey over the last few years.
Speaker:But actually seeing money as a great gateway to talking about some much
Speaker:deeper topics, I think that's what I find fascinating is it's almost like a mirror
Speaker:to who we are and can reveal a lot more about us than it does about money itself.
Speaker:So that's, yeah, that's that.
Speaker:Curiosity I've had about this and how we can open up conversation by
Speaker:understanding what's our relationship to it as a starting point.
Speaker:So I, I've, I have, I've had a mixed, uh, relationship with money.
Speaker:It's primarily been the, uh, um, I think an energetic one in terms of, uh,
Speaker:money initially were like reward tokens.
Speaker:Loved money in that sense.
Speaker:Like I, it's a game.
Speaker:Uh, it was, yeah.
Speaker:It was not only a game.
Speaker:It's like I did some work, someone gave me some reward.
Speaker:Brilliant.
Speaker:I will do more work and I'll work and I'll work.
Speaker:And there was something around that really simple of exchange.
Speaker:And I remember the third thing that spring to mind was doing a paper round.
Speaker:Uh, and how I would be able to do some other people's paper
Speaker:rounds faster than they could.
Speaker:Because I plotted a system.
Speaker:And so like that would mean if I could, like if they
Speaker:didn't come in and they, this,
Speaker:this is before ai.
Speaker:This is before ai, but there's like, there's like, you know, I could see
Speaker:the rows and I could see if you just followed that path and you arrange the
Speaker:newspapers in a certain way, you could just do that in about a third of the time.
Speaker:And I would get their money and then I could spend it on comics.
Speaker:And so basically fun tokens, money were fun tokens, reward tokens
Speaker:to then be able to spend it on other stuff that I could enjoy.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And that was because my basic needs were covered.
Speaker:You know, I had a house I comfortable, all of that was, was fine.
Speaker:I didn't have to worry about anything else other than the fun tokens.
Speaker:And at the same time, I also had this, uh, pernicious underlying
Speaker:belief that money was safety.
Speaker:And so if I looked at my bank account, uh, particularly after I left home
Speaker:and then I had to work for myself, I could, if I could see it slowly falling
Speaker:down, it was like, Ooh, anxiety, anxiety comes in, creativity goes out.
Speaker:And it was like, shit, need to work hard.
Speaker:Just need to get the money in.
Speaker:And so that, That was a lot of unlearning still required, but I think
Speaker:feeling less tied to that right now.
Speaker:But it, there's something here for me about flow of money and
Speaker:how to let it flow, uh, in a way that doesn't feel too scary.
Speaker:Oh, I can definitely find myself in both of your, um, sharings.
Speaker:So I notice for myself of like, there's some heart in me that when it comes to
Speaker:man, ma matters, I would just like to be the, you know, ostrich with a head on the
Speaker:sand, like don't want to deal with it.
Speaker:Um, and then there's a part of me that like, when.
Speaker:You said Lawrence of like, I just want to lean with towards it because it creates
Speaker:a lot of opportunities and possibilities.
Speaker:and then there's also a part in me that grapples with, oh my
Speaker:goodness, how come I didn't learn about this when I was younger?
Speaker:That it makes adulting really hard because now you have to like what you, you shared
Speaker:Carlos, it's not just about learning, but unlearning quite a lot of things.
Speaker:I. Um, and then there's a part that's very much conscious of, I don't
Speaker:want to pass this on to my kids.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Because if I'm grappling with money in this way, I don't want them to
Speaker:be, you know, I don't want them to be struggling with, ideas around money
Speaker:in, you know, in how they are with it.
Speaker:So those are all parts that I, you know, it's, it's a daily recalibration.
Speaker:On how to be with money in a way that what you mentioned, Carlos, that flows,
Speaker:that's regenerative, that's, um, creative.
Speaker:And I think that that for me is that of like.
Speaker:Yes, all of these parts exist and at the same time, I have the agency to
Speaker:say, okay, then how do I, you know, listen to these voices and at the same
Speaker:time give space for them while also acknowledging that there's so much
Speaker:possibilities when I'm looking at money from a different perspective than what
Speaker:I grew up in or than what I was raised, um, or from what I've seen in my culture.
Speaker:I am noticing where those stories have come from as well.
Speaker:Isn't it?
Speaker:Awareness of, is this me or is this, yeah.
Speaker:Ingrained from some situations earlier in my life.
Speaker:I liked, you know, I actually, I get excited when you start talking about
Speaker:passing on money stories and how you work with money and with your kids.
Speaker:'cause this is something I'm trying to be conscious of with my kids.
Speaker:and I know I am fully aware that it is a reaction to how I was treated as a kid.
Speaker:So, yeah, I, I'm, I'm gonna own that.
Speaker:And I feel I've got a bit of a conscious awareness around it.
Speaker:And for me it's about.
Speaker:I don't want my kids to be a worry about money.
Speaker:You know, I don't want 'em to think, oh, I can't buy this, I can't buy that.
Speaker:And it was like this real tentative feeling like, oh, we have to, you
Speaker:know, be, hesitant necessarily or just overly conscious about money, and I
Speaker:want them to be literate around money.
Speaker:I don't want 'em to not look at it, but I don't want them to worry about it.
Speaker:So that real fine balance of like, oh, you want that?
Speaker:Cool.
Speaker:We'll get it.
Speaker:Oh, we're gonna go there, that's fine.
Speaker:Don't think about the money and okay, you, you want to buy a new
Speaker:computer, or how are we gonna do that?
Speaker:Not, it appears out thin there, but not, you can't have it because
Speaker:we don't have enough money.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And that's a really, yeah.
Speaker:I think that for me, because I, I, I, I have remember an experience of my
Speaker:li my life where I never wanted for anything, but I worried about everything.
Speaker:That, and that's not a great situation to be in.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Oh, well, I, I don't know how it is in your family, Carlos, but
Speaker:I do know from, you know, the upbringing in the Philippines where
Speaker:money is not even talked about.
Speaker:Openly as a family.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:So, so the, the situation around, do we have enough resources, you would just
Speaker:know when all of a sudden, you know, you, you, you will be told, Hey, you have to,
Speaker:Start skimping on, tighten the bells, Hey, you know, tightening the belt.
Speaker:Um, because there's nothing that's, you know, that's very
Speaker:open around it, then you, your nervous system is set on guessing.
Speaker:I. Mm. And then that's what we are wired for.
Speaker:Uh, we are wired to, hmm, navigate the what's happening here
Speaker:without really knowing or having clarity around the situation.
Speaker:So I, I totally agree with you, Carlos, around the worrying part.
Speaker:And at the same time, the awareness part of like, okay, now, you know,
Speaker:as a, 49-year-old self, like, uh, um, but what, what can I do?
Speaker:You know, how can I, you know, how can I, um, be in relationship with
Speaker:money, especially as an entrepreneur that is very much different from,
Speaker:um, how I grew up in it and what's, what are my choices around it?
Speaker:Something there about what Carlos said about.
Speaker:Having respect for money, so like respecting the value of it and
Speaker:where it comes from and knowing it just doesn't come out of thin air.
Speaker:So definitely something I've tried to instill in my kids is
Speaker:you can't just have what you want.
Speaker:it reminds me, I dunno if you've ever done this for your kids when you know
Speaker:if they, this is when they were younger, but when they wanted something and they
Speaker:just think you can go and buy it from the shop versus like, if my mom or my
Speaker:mother-in-law gave them 10 20 pounds to spend in a toy shop, I had this with.
Speaker:My kids and then, and my niece and nephew, and we'd go to the shop and
Speaker:they'd have their 10 pounds to spend.
Speaker:They'd keep picking something up, they'd go to the cashier
Speaker:and then they'd go, no, no.
Speaker:It's, it's too expensive.
Speaker:No, no.
Speaker:It's a rip off.
Speaker:And so when it's their money, suddenly the, the respect for money is way
Speaker:higher than if it's your money.
Speaker:So that was quite a powerful lesson early on as when they feel like
Speaker:it's theirs, they, they protect it more and, and value it more.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:I think, well, for me there's, this is about, uh, the key thing
Speaker:for me is agency with money.
Speaker:Like on one hand there's worry, then there's awareness.
Speaker:But then in that middle bit I'm thinking about how can we act and
Speaker:how can we behave, not be frozen because of fear and not be reckless,
Speaker:and then just spray and pray.
Speaker:But, you know, feel like we can do something about our money situations.
Speaker:And, and one thing I wanted to get my son to do is like.
Speaker:is to launch something now, to start selling something now.
Speaker:'cause he, he makes, he does music.
Speaker:Uh, and what we thought was we're gonna launch an idea with him called Underscore.
Speaker:And it's basically background music for people who want to do social media
Speaker:stuff, whether it work or not, no idea.
Speaker:But this whole idea, let's try use his skills.
Speaker:There's a need, potentially present it in a way and see if he can make
Speaker:money so that he can then do the things that he wants, which is generally
Speaker:upgrade his computer, which is not cheap, so he needs to make some money.
Speaker:But then
Speaker:even that process of making money, it isn't just about receiving money,
Speaker:it's about talking about values, it's about telling stories, it's
Speaker:about lots of things that isn't just about making the thing, but it's also
Speaker:communicating why that thing is important.
Speaker:And who is that important to?
Speaker:And celebrating money.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That, that's something that, uh, I've started, um, sharing with my family
Speaker:of like, whenever there's a proposal that got, that, that gets a yes,
Speaker:and I do a gig and I do a project, there would be a celebration, even
Speaker:if it's just, uh, you know, go out to, uh, burger King with a coupon.
Speaker:Like anything that would, that would highlight that, Hey, this is a celebration
Speaker:because there's something here.
Speaker:That was accomplished and that, that, you know, that, that also
Speaker:brings us a lot of sustenance.
Speaker:Um, so now my kids would be like, okay, mama, how many proposals did you send?
Speaker:Like, they're, they're waiting for, what, what are we celebrating?
Speaker:But for me it's, it's fascinating because it's not just about the accomplishment
Speaker:for them, it's the acknowledgement of, Hey, there was a lot of work that was put
Speaker:there and that, you know, that this work.
Speaker:Is being, you know, validated because people are asking for it.
Speaker:Uh, oftentimes my, my son will be like, okay, if you charge this much, then oh
Speaker:my God, you're, you know, you're one, one minute of your time is this much.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And I'm just like, you, you're a millionaire.
Speaker:I, I don't price like that.
Speaker:So, so having these conversations with my teenagers, I'm just like.
Speaker:It's such a big shift already.
Speaker:It's such a big mm-hmm.
Speaker:generational shift, and I, I'm loving the openness that we can have while,
Speaker:while we're sitting dinner and talking about, Hey, you know, there are things
Speaker:that we would be doing in the next couple of months, which would mean
Speaker:resources are allocated to these events.
Speaker:And then they know, you know, they know the situation around money.
Speaker:They know my situation as an en entrepreneur.
Speaker:And they also know that hey, it, it varies and it fluctuates.
Speaker:And, and so I, I really love this space of agency, um, because it's
Speaker:not just something that we do for ourselves or for our clients, but it's
Speaker:something that we do for our loved ones.
Speaker:I love what Terry says here about, um, accepting money being as much
Speaker:of a challenge as making money.
Speaker:So linked to this idea we talked about at the start about how we.
Speaker:See money or relationship to it.
Speaker:If we see it as dirty, maybe you or evil, then we're gonna push it away.
Speaker:We're gonna find it hard to accept money or if we try and ignore it, so
Speaker:well, maybe that leads us onto some of the stuff we talk about in the
Speaker:program in terms of applying this.
Speaker:How does it actually work out day to day in terms of how we make decisions
Speaker:around this, what's important to us?
Speaker:I want to bridge that because I liked what you said, Lada about celebration.
Speaker:So there's this, what for me that talks to is this shifting the energy we have around
Speaker:money, which is, well, I think what you're talking about, Lawrence, in terms of how
Speaker:do we accept money in a way that, um, doesn't impact us negatively emotionally.
Speaker:and then there's creativity.
Speaker:How can we be creative, not only with our approach to money, but in terms of
Speaker:what we offer in return of for money?
Speaker:And so I think what a key premise that we are, we are trying to communicate
Speaker:with our work is this shifting away from just selling your time.
Speaker:and particularly with the kinds of people that work with us and the way
Speaker:we work, you are whether you are a coach or consultant or you're a service
Speaker:provider, um, what we are trying to sell a lot of the time is, Is our time is
Speaker:being with people and kind of creatively and in the moment doing something.
Speaker:Like with myself and Lawrence, when we were designing websites, you know,
Speaker:we would take a brief and then we would collaborate with the the client
Speaker:in order to find the right solution.
Speaker:So there was the end solution with us, unfortunately, I will say would always
Speaker:be different because it would be a different crime client with different
Speaker:requirements and different needs, and so.
Speaker:Even then, there was a lot of uncertainty around how to price, how to define
Speaker:profit and all of these things, which then it made it easier to say, all
Speaker:right, we'll spend X number of days on something so it's easier to communicate
Speaker:how much time, you know, how much money it would cost based on time, but then
Speaker:it would be a rod for our own back.
Speaker:'cause like if we couldn't do it within the five days, then what would that mean?
Speaker:We would be making a loss.
Speaker:Uh, and conversely, if we could do it in a day, how, how do we communicate
Speaker:that that doesn't make the client feel like, well widow, should I
Speaker:just pay you for a day's work?
Speaker:'cause you could that, Hmm.
Speaker:And so this for me, in a roundabout way, is a, talking about, I.
Speaker:Value, you know, how do we price, price based on value, based
Speaker:on outcomes, based on change?
Speaker:But then how does that, what, how do we get to that?
Speaker:And I think that for me is this idea of starting to learn
Speaker:to adopt a product mindset.
Speaker:Because the thing about a product is it's fixed.
Speaker:It's steps.
Speaker:It's a pro.
Speaker:You can't keep on changing it a lot of the time, unless you've got some
Speaker:sophisticated AI product of course.
Speaker:But most of the time when it comes to a product, it doesn't change.
Speaker:So, which means you really need to be clear a, about the change, do
Speaker:you wanna make, who you wanna make it for, and the steps involved.
Speaker:the value part, Carlos, is so important to think about, because I remember when I was
Speaker:just starting, I, you know, I was, I had this mentality of, but why would they pay
Speaker:me this much, And that took a long time to uncouple of, oh, it's not about, um, you
Speaker:know, one hour of my time is worth this.
Speaker:Um, but rather like what you said, you know, why are they paying you
Speaker:thousands of dollars or thousands of euros or whatever currency it is.
Speaker:But it's also because of the wealth of experiences, the wisdom, the, you
Speaker:know, your presence, your strengths, but it's not just about the time involved.
Speaker:and this is something that I think does not equate with people around
Speaker:how to price because the majority of what we've been taught around pricing
Speaker:is equ equating it with our time
Speaker:and also our own relationship to what is expensive and what
Speaker:is cheap as well, I would say.
Speaker:Oh, definitely.
Speaker:So, yeah, we are never gonna price when, when we think, oh, I'd never pay that.
Speaker:So someone else would never pay that.
Speaker:Yes, and I think for me this is, and we can have a whole session
Speaker:on pricing, which is fascinating.
Speaker:The what's helped me with this is separating value and price.
Speaker:And I know this sounds really, really strange, but I think it's
Speaker:a really important distinction because something can be valuable.
Speaker:But people might not be able to pay the, some people, let's start again.
Speaker:Some people might not be able to pay the price that you wanna put
Speaker:on it, and so value for me is like, I need to have this change.
Speaker:When I have this change or this service.
Speaker:It's gonna benefit me in some way if it doesn't benefit me.
Speaker:If I'm not happier, if I'm not more chilled, if I'm not able to do my
Speaker:work more effectively, if I don't accumulate something, there's no
Speaker:value there in inverted commas.
Speaker:When it comes to price, this is where I think the previous session stories
Speaker:have changed and the work that we do in the program start with who is so
Speaker:important because how much someone will pay you a always dependent on value.
Speaker:There's no value.
Speaker:Why would they pay you?
Speaker:But secondly, it's like what does this price represent to that person and how
Speaker:much money do they have actually to spend?
Speaker:And this is again, we can start going on to something like business,
Speaker:talk about positioning and marketing strategy, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker:But ultimately, someone with a lot of money who values your work is more capable
Speaker:of paying 10,000, 5,000, whatever it is, than someone who still values your work.
Speaker:But for whatever reason, because of the work that they do, the clients they have,
Speaker:the amount of money, they will pay less.
Speaker:And then that's become, that ends up being your choice eventually.
Speaker:Who are you and for whom?
Speaker:Because either, A, you want to earn a certain amount of money, or B, you
Speaker:wanna help the people with less money by working with the people with more money.
Speaker:Or you can deliver the same value to different people for different amounts of
Speaker:money because you do it in different ways.
Speaker:Mm. And this is where, uh, we can maybe show and start talking about
Speaker:this idea of a product pyramid.
Speaker:Now, there's two ways you can look at this and maybe we can explore a bit more.
Speaker:One is, you can look at it in terms of different ways that people can
Speaker:work with you with as, as a kind of a pathway to higher value.
Speaker:So to do deeper work with you, to experience you in different
Speaker:ways and maybe to even just have different experiences with you.
Speaker:So to give people just a range of choices of how to work with you.
Speaker:Or you could have one process, one transformation, but you deliver in
Speaker:very different ways, whether that's.
Speaker:Peak of it is one-to-one.
Speaker:You will coach someone and you will spend their time with them
Speaker:to make that transformation happen at a very personalized level.
Speaker:Second level is a group, so less personalized, but still you're
Speaker:still gonna be taken on the journey.
Speaker:Third, third level, self-paced.
Speaker:Do it on your own.
Speaker:I've got a process, follow it.
Speaker:You won't get the benefit of my knowledge and wisdom, but you'll
Speaker:have something to work with.
Speaker:And then there's the free stuff just to help people understand how does
Speaker:this process work in the first place?
Speaker:So there's, I think there's this thing about the change you wanna make and
Speaker:then the price that's put on it that is really dependent on who you wanna
Speaker:serve and their capacity to pay.
Speaker:and.
Speaker:There's a way of actually kind of structuring that that helps you work
Speaker:out what, what do you have, what do you do, and where would you put it
Speaker:on this, this kind of pyramid scale.
Speaker:I dunno, do you wanna, anyone want to take that on and just explain a bit more?
Speaker:Uh, for me there's a, a level of intimacy here that's involved, right, of, um, when
Speaker:you look at, you know, how we can connect with each other, we can work deeply with
Speaker:each other, um, depends on, um, where you are at in the product pyramid, right?
Speaker:So, I personally believe that the awareness and trust.
Speaker:Is very important as a foundation because, um, people are more, more likely to,
Speaker:uh, purchase or to ask for your services because they know who you are and they
Speaker:trust the, uh, the kind of work and the quality of work that you can deliver.
Speaker:And.
Speaker:This for me is why that awareness and trust building, um, is
Speaker:very, very, very important.
Speaker:And I think this is where, From other sessions that I have given with startups,
Speaker:this is the part that they miss.
Speaker:Like, uh, I have an product idea and then, you know, create an
Speaker:entire, this is what I want to do.
Speaker:Uh, my website is going to be like this.
Speaker:There's an entire focus on.
Speaker:that one thing or that one service, but forgets that, oh, but how
Speaker:can people relate with this?
Speaker:How can people know about this?
Speaker:And how can they trust you enough to start saying, Hey, you know, I'm
Speaker:interested with what you have to offer.
Speaker:And we'll cover a bit more about that tomorrow, won't we?
Speaker:Going a bit more about working out loud, sharing your voice, but yeah.
Speaker:How do you.
Speaker:Let people know that it exists and not just feel like you're selling, you know?
Speaker:'cause like you said, a lot of people go straight into, I'll build the thing,
Speaker:I'll make the thing, and then, oh, I've gotta find people who wanna buy the thing.
Speaker:Where do I get them from?
Speaker:Versus building that trust, you know, from day one before you've even built anything.
Speaker:That would be, that would be our advice.
Speaker:yeah, for me, for those that are looking at this, if you think about
Speaker:this, is you can create offers at all of these different levels with the
Speaker:most expensive thing being at the top.
Speaker:Or you could think about where your focus could be.
Speaker:So we know, you know, we know people who just do quite premium one-to-one
Speaker:work who maybe don't have any other courses or offers, but they build trust.
Speaker:Um, to get people to that one-to-one thing.
Speaker:And so we've got, offers, everything in it, you know, everything here.
Speaker:But I've found with people at the early stage, it can be really helpful just to
Speaker:map out all the ideas they might have.
Speaker:'cause typically people have lots of ideas, but dunno where to start.
Speaker:And that's the important thing is like you said, Lana, how can you start
Speaker:building trust and moving forward with your ideas, rather than launch everything
Speaker:from day one and get sidetracked.
Speaker:I wanna talk to.
Speaker:Yeah, a couple of things.
Speaker:Firstly, uh, this idea of trust, uh, then also there's what Yvonne was
Speaker:saying about building relationships and referrals, and then there's a
Speaker:question as well I saw from, uh, Terry.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Terry, uh, about being paid for being a wisdom provider.
Speaker:Um, one thing that I. I'm curious about, and I think, I believe is an
Speaker:important part of this, is not only trust in us as service providers,
Speaker:people providing whatever help we're gonna provide is people trusting
Speaker:themselves because they need to trust that this transformation, this
Speaker:objective, this outcome is possible for themselves, that they can do something.
Speaker:And this is where I think pathway products can really help.
Speaker:Where rather than going in, for instance, with coaching.
Speaker:Committing a significant amount of time and money and coaching.
Speaker:If they don't trust not only you, but that they can do the work to actually achieve
Speaker:the outcome, they're not gonna do that.
Speaker:So how can you give them opportunities to learn, whether that's with this, path,
Speaker:you know, smaller products like little, we, we offer little eBooks and, and, and
Speaker:mini courses so that people can start just playing with the ideas that we're gonna
Speaker:work on with them if we ever coach them or they join the program so that they can.
Speaker:Paint a picture possibility for themselves because I think when they, when you
Speaker:can help them trust themselves, they're more likely to trust you and it's
Speaker:like a mutually beneficial engagement that I feel with the referrals thing.
Speaker:I like what, you know, I'm now understanding a bit more what Seth
Speaker:Godin talks about being remarkable is like if you give them an experience,
Speaker:whether it is a pathway product or your program or something that just.
Speaker:It blows their mind, not just based on outcome, but just a feeling.
Speaker:Like a lot of people who join our Vision 2020 program, it, it's just somewhere that
Speaker:they feel like, oh, this feels like home.
Speaker:This feels like a place I wanna be, and that's when they say, do you know what?
Speaker:I wanna tell other people that need this, that they should do this thing?
Speaker:That for me is like referral gold or even experiences that you can offer.
Speaker:Whether like webinars or mini products that you can create.
Speaker:I think that's, that's part, again, of just how can you, we infuse celebration
Speaker:and creativity in the way that we make money that isn't just about,
Speaker:oh, how can we increase the numbers?
Speaker:Should we have a look at Terry's question?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:let's do that.
Speaker:So how do you price yourself as a wisdom provider versus thinking hourly?
Speaker:For me, I'm thinking of the time when that shifted for me.
Speaker:So, so a story that I have around it was, I was invited to give a 15 minute,
Speaker:talk for no even, even less 10 minutes talk in, in a, uh, an online, um, summit.
Speaker:So I was asked to just give a 10 minute talk and they paid me 1,600 Euros.
Speaker:And that blew my mind of like, wait a minute, you know?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:That was just say, you know, together with the preparation, because it's
Speaker:a topic that I know already and that I've been talking about, so total,
Speaker:you know, also the emailing and stuff.
Speaker:I'm like, okay, put it at two hours, a total of two hours.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:For 1,600.
Speaker:That really shifted my view of.
Speaker:I shouldn't be pricing it as an hourly thing because mm-hmm.
Speaker:If somebody can pay me for 10 minutes of me talking, then you know, what's,
Speaker:what's the point in pricing hourly?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So I shifted that to thinking of it as, you know, like what you said,
Speaker:it's a product, it's, it's a, when you ask me for a keynote or when you
Speaker:ask me for a workshop, this is the package that it contains in there.
Speaker:So it does not, you know, it does not tell you how many hours I will be working
Speaker:on it, because it does not also equate the years and the decades of me bringing
Speaker:in that ex expertise and experience.
Speaker:So for me, I, I put it in already as this is the package around it, and that helped
Speaker:me to, to um, be, you know, be at ease with putting a number, putting a price.
Speaker:I. On, um, you know, an invoice, because I see it as it's a whole part rather than
Speaker:just a piece of what, uh, you know, what is entailed for me, which is my time.
Speaker:Well, it's like what we talked about the other day, this idea of
Speaker:getting paid to be me and making impact just by being yourself.
Speaker:And so the thing that comes up for me is rather than thinking about
Speaker:pricing yourself, it's about.
Speaker:Really understanding what they're buying, you know, and they're buying
Speaker:you your wisdom, your face on the summit, access to your network and the.
Speaker:Authority you've built up, the influence you've built up.
Speaker:Um, so having you as part of this event is suddenly more high profile
Speaker:because you are, you are in it.
Speaker:And so whether you're there for one minute or an hour, it
Speaker:doesn't really matter so much.
Speaker:What matters more?
Speaker:Is that the value you bring to that?
Speaker:So I. That's helped me too.
Speaker:Like when me and Carlos first sold, sold our first online course, I remember the
Speaker:feeling like waking up and seeing an email come in that someone had bought
Speaker:a product that we, the first product we'd really built, I think, and that
Speaker:feeling of, oh, I didn't do anything and money just arrived a bit like you.
Speaker:How does that feel?
Speaker:I think to Terry's question about accepting money, and so for me it's
Speaker:just understanding what are people actually buying and how can we
Speaker:not think about it as I'm selling myself, but actually they're buying
Speaker:value that maybe I'm not aware of.
Speaker:the way I'm gonna answer this is it's, it's not a simple process
Speaker:to price yourself and I would say it's a dance because it isn't
Speaker:just you setting a price, it's understanding who you are working with.
Speaker:there's a lot in that because it's all about in the end, being
Speaker:an incredibly great coach when you are selling and pricing.
Speaker:It isn't about, oh, I've got these tactics and strategy.
Speaker:It's actually getting.
Speaker:All the information you need out of the customer in order to find a price
Speaker:that isn't the price that they like.
Speaker:It's a price that they understand.
Speaker:And I think that's the other thing.
Speaker:It isn't about, oh, I'm happy to pay this price.
Speaker:No.
Speaker:It's like, I get it.
Speaker:It's uncomfortable maybe to pay, but I understand why I should
Speaker:pay 300 half thousand pounds for Vision 2020, for instance.
Speaker:It's like, okay, that needs to be a calculation that you need to help
Speaker:them make, or they already know it.
Speaker:But it can't be something that you just given to 'em and
Speaker:they'll accept straight away.
Speaker:And you, or you should think, oh, they'll just accept it 'cause
Speaker:that's what other people have paid.
Speaker:No, there's, there's a, an education piece.
Speaker:And the other thing I think that is, I really feel like it's important to stress.
Speaker:The biggest thing I believe that stops us from pricing in that way and
Speaker:being playful is fear of rejection.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:That is ultimately the biggest and the hardest thing that all
Speaker:of us will tackle when pricing.
Speaker:It's not about, oh, what's the right number?
Speaker:It's like, what if they say no?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And unless you tackle that, you are always gonna be too
Speaker:scared to play with the pricing.
Speaker:I think.
Speaker:And that's the inner work and mm-hmm.
Speaker:That's the fun stuff.
Speaker:That, and yeah, doing it with others and, and being able to share
Speaker:these stories with each other.
Speaker:I think that's, that's where we can sort of unlock, unlock some
Speaker:of, of that inner resistance.
Speaker:Cool.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Um, tomorrow.
Speaker:Tomorrow.
Speaker:What are we talking about?
Speaker:We're talking about sharing your voice.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Like you're saying Lawrence, you know, do you know, maybe elaborate a bit more
Speaker:about this idea of sharing our voices.
Speaker:Well, yeah, I think it can be easy just to do a lot of this work
Speaker:in isolation and to talk in our groups and to keep it all safe.
Speaker:But actually to put our ideas out there is, it can be a vulnerable
Speaker:place to be, but also really rewarding place to be in terms of
Speaker:clarity, in terms of, um, connection.
Speaker:So the last summit's really gonna be a series of summit's gonna be about
Speaker:how to connect with others ultimately.
Speaker:So not thinking about self-promotion and banging the drum for our, our work
Speaker:and buy, buy from me, but actually.
Speaker:There's someone or people out there who will benefit from what
Speaker:I'm creating and best to connect with 'em sooner rather than later.
Speaker:So this idea of working out loud, sharing ideas before they're fully formed, but
Speaker:actually the process of sharing those ideas, how we can build clarity through
Speaker:it rather than waiting till we've got all our ducks in a row, kind of the
Speaker:perfect launch is is gonna happen.
Speaker:So yeah, the fluffy launch, we'll talk a bit about that tomorrow.
Speaker:on Friday we're gonna be talking to Anne Law Lako.
Speaker:Uh, she's written a book called Tiny Experiments, uh, and it's
Speaker:really interesting 'cause part of her book, she talks about
Speaker:essentially this idea of sharing your voice, sharing your ideas early.
Speaker:Uh, and there's two elements that she talks about there as
Speaker:well, which is really beneficial.
Speaker:firstly, um, like Lauren said, it's, it's by sharing it early, you start
Speaker:getting some feedback and you can sort of like develop your ideas and also
Speaker:develop your resilience muscles and when you get, when you get feedback.
Speaker:but secondly, it's great accountability.
Speaker:'cause soon as you share an idea and you say, I'm gonna do this thing, I'm
Speaker:gonna, then other people are gonna say, well, when, what's I gonna do next?
Speaker:When, when's the next thing coming out?
Speaker:And that.
Speaker:If you are a perennial procrastinator, that is gonna be your medicine.
Speaker:Share your idea early.
Speaker:Share it with people you trust or share it with people, not that you feel safe with.
Speaker:I think that's the initial start.
Speaker:'cause that's where people, again, fear of rejection, fear of criticism.
Speaker:This is why communities like ours are important.
Speaker:Whew.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Until next
Speaker:time.
Speaker:Until next time, time, everyone tomorrow.
Speaker:Take care everyone.
Speaker:Thank you for joining us.
